BuzzerBeater Forums

History? Really? Do you even think before you write stuff?
Spain had 0 titles before 2008... So they were probably shit before that. And shame on every team that lost vs them.
Croatia has 0 titles. So they must still be shit. Doesnt matter they have Rakitic, Modric, Kovacic, Mandzukic,...

England has titles... Yet, they are one NT that keep disappointing. Shame on them they keep losing...

Lets say titles matter as you say... But I bet you will also say... Real Madrid won 5 times when it didnt matter. Hypocrite? Dont twist reality as it suits you.

When match starts, past doesnt matter. Every generation is writing new history. You dont see Barca players afraid when they play vs Real Madrid just because Real had best team in 60's.

EDIT: Also, I cant believe you keep underestimating teams that went further than England on Euro 2016. As like every small country is shit. Like size matters? Too bad China doesnt have n1 NT on world.

Last edited by nebi at 4/27/2017 9:14:32 AM

Like I said, I prefer Messi, but you trying to make Ronaldo achievements count less is pathetic.

They count the same, but they are also fewer....

Another advantage in Messi career... He played with Xavi and Iniesta (two players that carried Spain national team for six years), two top midfielders that dont score goals, but rather assist.

yeah that would be funny if it was remotely true...

Games/Assists/Goals (Source espnfc)
2006/07
Xavi 49/5/7
Iniesta 45/4/9
Messi 37/3/20

2007/08
Xavi 63/9/12
Iniesta 52/5/6
Messi 52/15/28

2008/09
Xavi 73/34/16
Iniesta 56/16/9
Messi 54/18/42

2009/10
Xavi 57/19/6
Iniesta 34/7/1
Messi 58/11/49

2010/11
Xavi 57/14/5
Iniesta 61/12/12
Messi 55/22/51

2011/12
Xavi 56/12/16
Iniesta 49/11/9
Messi 70/27/77

2012/13
Xavi 54/15/12
Iniesta 55/22/7
Messi 59/18/75

2013/14
Xavi 51/5/5
Iniesta 53/12/4
Messi 50/13/46

Totals over that period when they were all starting regularly for Barcelona:
Xavi: 460 games, 113 assists (0.246 average), 79 goals
Iniesta: 405 games, 89 assists (0.220 average), 57 goals
Messi: 435 games, 127 assists (0.292 average), 388 goals

I rest my case on who carried whom. Even without considering that Messi scored 3x what the other 2 combined for, just looking at the assist numbers should be fairly obvious.

Last edited by Lemonshine at 4/27/2017 9:39:53 AM

History? Really? Do you even think before you write stuff?
Spain had 0 titles before 2008

Man you're also very ignorant. Spain had already won the Euros in '64, everybody knows that.

Lets say titles matter as you say... But I bet you will also say... Real Madrid won 5 times when it didnt matter. Hypocrite? Dont twist reality as it suits you.

lol they were literally the first 5 editions of the competition...

Do you really want to argue that the first 5 editions were as competitive as the editions in the last 25 years when football really became global and exponentially more popular?

EDIT: Also, I cant believe you keep underestimating teams that went further than England on Euro 2016. As like every small country is shit. Like size matters? Too bad China doesnt have n1 NT on world.

Tradition and results matter. That's why England sucks. Italy and Germany are the best nations in european football and then Spain. The last Euros with that idiotic formula and an extra round was just dumb and they managed to put France, Germany, Spain and Italy all on the same side and 3 of them in the same quarterfinal.

It's like the NBA basing playoffs' seeding on 1 game in the RS and then you have WCSF: GSW-SAS, HOU-UTA in one bracket and then POR-OKC, LAC-MEM in the other!

Last edited by Lemonshine at 4/27/2017 9:40:47 AM

You take everything out of context? Why are you so desperate? Its getting pathetic already.

Like I said, I prefer Messi, but you trying to make Ronaldo achievements count less is pathetic.

They count the same, but they are also fewer....

Ronaldo won with NT, so he has more titles with NT than Messi. Cant say fewer. You just took what I wrote out of context.

Another advantage in Messi career... He played with Xavi and Iniesta (two players that carried Spain national team for six years), two top midfielders that dont score goals, but rather assist.

yeah that would be funny if it was remotely true...

Totals over that period when they were all starting regularly for Barcelona:
Xavi: 460 games, 113 assists (0.246 average), 79 goals
Iniesta: 405 games, 89 assists (0.220 average), 57 goals
Messi: 435 games, 127 assists (0.292 average), 388 goals

I rest my case on who carried whom. Even without considering that Messi scored 3x what the other 2 combined for, just looking at the assist numbers should be fairly obvious.

I said Xavi and Iniesta carried Spain NT... Not Barcelona. They were key pieces in Barca team, but ofcourse Messi was most important player... But you just take random stuff out of context as it suits you.

I am out of this debate. You proved numeros times you mix basketball and football and you bend facts as they suit you.

EDIT: By your logic Messi should have same amount of CL thropies as Ronaldo. Just because he didnt play in 2006 final. Hes contribution before final doesnt matter. What a joke.

Last edited by nebi at 4/27/2017 10:17:40 AM

You just took what I wrote out of context.

you said:

Like I said, I prefer Messi, but you trying to make Ronaldo achievements count less is pathetic.

I said let's measure them in number. Messi comes out handily on top, both in individual awards, individual records AND in team success.

In fact you are the one who is "trying to make Messi achievements count less" by saying that one of Messi's Ballon d'Or was gifted to him. I didn't even argue about that, because the numbers are clearly showing that one of them is better than the other and only one of them as a legitimate case for GOAT.

Messi
5x Ballon d'Or (for now)
4x Champions League titles
8x National titles
1x Olympic champion (since you insist to count the NT...)

Ronaldo
4x Ballon d'Or
3x Champions League
4x National titles
1x Euro championships

I don't see how the 2 are remotely equal.

I said Xavi and Iniesta carried Spain NT... Not Barcelona. They were key pieces in Barca team, but ofcourse Messi was most important player... But you just take random stuff out of context as it suits you.|

you said:

He played with Xavi and Iniesta (two players that carried Spain national team for six years), two top midfielders that dont score goals, but rather assist.

Man, you said Xavi and Iniesta carried Spain and were key pieces in Barcelona and their contribution was mostly assists. Then I proved to you that Messi had more assists than either of them, plus scoring 3 times more goals than both together.

This has to be one of the most egregious points ever. Besides, if you really like Messi, as you claim, you should know he scores plenty of goals where he goes 20m with the ball embarrassing 3 or 4 defenders and beating the keeper. They don't count the last pass as an assist for those...just to be clear.

All I can say is that if Messi had a complexity and athleticism of CR, he'd be the best football player in the history of the game. That's why I consider him a better sensation, though most likely I'd rather have CR in my team.

C. Ronaldo.

Semi-final again, the magician CR7, unstoppable!

Messi? I didn't saw him tonight, maybe tomorrow? I guess not..

I just saw pure magic in the UCL. There will be haters.

Can we stop saying that CR doesnt have talent? Seriously? As soon as someone say this, he lose credibility.

If we judge players by their playstyle, their elegance... Then Messi and CR are shit compared to Ronaldinho.