BuzzerBeater Forums

TIE (and enthusiasm in general) impacts a teams defense and rebounding.

Also, using TIE or CT will not impact the visual match ratings.

This was true before the big game engine change two seasons ago (which took place during the All-star week). Then the CT/TIE was changed, and since then the effects of Enthusiasm and CT/TIE are of different nature. Enthusiasm simply affects the defense/rebounds ratings. CT/TIE does something different as explained by BB-Charles in the News when announcing those changes. They don't affect ratings after they discovered a bug at the end of season 4.

Anyway, you can think whatever you want. But baldovius was telling that CT/TIE affects the shot % and in your reply you state that TIE affects the teams defenses, which is in perfect agreement with what he said...

Anyway, you can think whatever you want. But baldovius was telling that CT/TIE affects the shot % and in your reply you state that TIE affects the teams defenses, which is in perfect agreement with what he said...

No, it is not.

The poster I responded to stated that:

When you tie you shooting percentage drops, and when you mots it rises

Please explain to me how a drop in defense causes the offense to shoot worse.

Should be "your", nevertheless.. that's what I get when I write in a hurry...

I still don't understand if the effect on rebounding is shown in the ratings. Also, the reduction/increase in the defensive skills, is shown or not? And if not, can you give us a rough value of this weight?

Should be "your", nevertheless.. that's what I get when I write in a hurry...

Bah, minor typo, I wouldn't worry about it.

I still don't understand if the effect on rebounding is shown in the ratings.

A CT or TIE will not change the ratings for rebounding or defense.

And if not, can you give us a rough value of this weight?

No idea - that's not something the BBs disclose.

CT or TIE doesn't have any effect on your ratings.

thanks to all 3 for the quick reply.

I completely agree with leomartins initial posts and complaints about enthusiasm. I always thought this was one of the weakest parts of Hattrick and unfortunatelly it has been even worse implemented in BuzzerBeater.

First of all I think it is a bad system for the reasons explained by leomartins. Secondly making things almost completelt hidden makes it very hard to understand the impacts of it for most users, not to speak about understanding how to usereally it in a proper way.

I would say that something like this would be much more logical and interesting:

TIE and win: Enthusiasm increases
TIE and loss by small margin: Enthusiasm decreases (the players know they should have won with a normal effort)
TIE and large loss: Enthusiasm stays the same

Normal and large win: Small enthusiasm increase
Normal and small win: Increase of enthusiasm (the players know they did perfect in the game)
Normal and loss: Small decrease of enthusiasm

CT and big win: Enthusiasm stays the same (the players felt that they put too much effort)
CT and small win: enthusiasm increases
CT and small loss: enthusiasm decrease
CT and large loss: large enthusiasm decrease

It probably needs some fine tuning, but I think that this is both more realistic and requires more coaching skills to dominate. Coaches that are good at predicting results can use this talent to build up enthusiasm, while coaches that are just gambling will be hurt on the long run.

Then of course the effects need to be visble in order to make it possible to analyse. Now when effects are not seen in the ratings it becomes quite difficult to understand. You will need to take a hugh amount of matches (to get enough data) and then compare things like actual shooting percentages with those expected from the matchup ratings and then correlate this with the chosen attitude. Even though this is doable, I do not think it is a good idea to have something like this for something as cruisal as enthusiasm/attitude as I am quite confident that very few managers will do this analysis, even less draw the right conclusions from it. Does it becomes a little bit of a lottery for most. As a comparison it seems that very few have control over the effects of free throw level, even though this is much easier to analse than enthusiasm/attidude effects.

Last edited by chespirito at 10/10/2008 5:56:45 PM

The purpose of enthusiasm is not to reward you for your wins.

Which is exactly the problem with todays stupid system that just rewards the better teams that can basically TIE through an entire season without thinking at all and which has no logic at all.

Instead you should be penalized/rewarded depending on how well you maximized your efforts. Anyway, it should have said TIE and big loss can could actually imagine to increase enthusiasm a little rather than just keeping it on the same level(even though I can easily see how this could be missused). Of course other loss changes will need to be updated accordingl.

What it al boils down to is that the skilled manager should know how much effort to put into a game. If he plays normal and looses he wil be punnished. On the other hand if he chooses TIE he want get the same punnishment if the loss is big.

As a trivial example, suppose that a slightly better team wins with a small margin after both have played normal, ad that the slightly better team gets the victory with a smal margin, then the slightly better team will increase enthusiasm compared to the other team. On the other hand if he other team played a TIE and the slightly better team gets a big win enthusiasm will stay the same for both. Finally if the slightly worse tam playes CT and gets a small win the slightly worse team will gain enthusiasm on the better.

Consequences of the current system is that a better team can basically build enthusiasm without really thinking, just as the bad team can, because he will loose anyway. Furthermore enthusiasm can easily be missued.

(However, to be frank, I think the whole enthusiasm bs should be removed completely. Just trying to explain different consequencs of different designs illustrates how weired the system is to begin with)

Consequences of the current system is that a better team can basically build enthusiasm without really thinking, just as the bad team can, because he will loose anyway. Furthermore enthusiasm can easily be missued.

this thing can happen, not because of a low enth, but because of his team is not strong enough... if this is the case, then in that particular match... he has no other choice but to play normal if he wants to win.

if he wants to build up team enth in the meantime, he might as well play TIE to another team who, he thinks, he can beat.

if he still wants to play TIE to a better team, well, he might get the enth, but not a lot compared to a lot weaker team... and, you have a lower chance of winning.

this mentality is usual in the sports industry... the better team wins, better teams has better chance controlling the game... that's it. IMO