BuzzerBeater Forums

What's not to agree?
The H2H WILL not work for teams from different conferences.....As Kozlo said it several times. So unless you have 2 inter conference matches you are basically handing the home team in that match a fair bit of advantage. How is that exactly fair? To decide the home team for the championship game on ONE game only in case of a tie.....

1) The OP said "Probably been asked, but are there any tiebreakers at all besides point differential? It'd be nice if H2H would be first, but projected spots don't suggest that :-/" - so the question was about getting into the playoffs, where teams from the same conference compete. But that doesnt make total points any fairer...
2) "Interconference teams" means teams from different conferences, so I think you mean "Intraconference"? If so, in the case of interconference, the tiebreaker would probably be for home court advantage?
So assuming the records and points differential are tied, you have to choose from the lesser of the [several] evils: tiebreaker game, H2H, total points scored, strength of victories, records in the last quarter of the season, alphabetical order, average height, number of vowels in team name, average IQ of team, total surface area of the players' eyes on their pictures, etc.
Now, we can throw out alphabetical order, average height, number of vowels, average IQ, and largeness of eyes, because these prove nothing about the team's ability to win. For the same reason, we should throw out total points scored, because once again, it says nothing about the team's ability to win.
Granted, scoring points helps you win. But being tall helps get rebounds, which also helps win. Having a higher IQ means youre smarter, and might play smarter. Having bigger eyes may increase peripheral vision, helping players make plays better. How about using total rebounds or total assists, or steals, or shooting %, etc....
These are just random tiebreakers that I made up, but they use the same logic as total points - scoring is important. rebounds are important. Shooting efficiency is important. But they each ignore huge aspects of the game of basketball.
What would you say if the tiebreaker was total rebounds? Or any other boxscore stat for that matter?
Next, after cleaning up the illogical tiebreakers, we can eliminate the inconvenient ones. In the case of home court advantage between 2 interconference teams, a one game tiebreaker on a neutral arena would be considered a waste of time and energy, so that is out. H2H is more reasonable, but it is also unfair for interconference teams(but more fair than total rebounds/points/assists/etc). So strength of victory (consider the records of the opponents of the 2 teams during the regular season - basically which conference the team comes from is stronger - if 2 teams have the same record and points differential, the better one is probably from the better conference) could work here. There are several more options... which only makes me wonder, why choose such an illogical tiebreaker like total points scored when there are clearly better options...

Nice logic here....

Thank you :)

why choose such an illogical tiebreaker like total points scored when there are clearly better options...

Because for something that will be used one time every million league and is a non-issue, you go for the easy and practical solution.

why choose such an illogical tiebreaker like total points scored when there are clearly better options...

Because for something that will be used one time every million league and is a non-issue, you go for the easy and practical solution.

and in this case even realistic solution, because it is a used concept.

The roots from it, aren't really in the athletik department, but most times it is used to make a offensiv minded attractive game style more attractiv to the clubs and make the league more intresting.

and to add to that, even the most popular of sports around the world, if 2 teams finish with everything exactly the same, the tiebreaker comes down to an eventual coin toss....

Its not likely to happen but still, there are more absurd tie breakers in the real world.

Just because people use it, doesnt mean its practical or logical. And all it takes are a few lines of code to implement a better rule.
A coin toss is used when no more fair rules can be called upon. In this case, there are plenty of more fair rules...
I think the only reason they said total points scored was because someone said "wait, what if the two teams have the same record and the same points differential?" and they took a split second to think and just implemented the rule for total points.
Anyways, the chance of this situation is really small. But the amount of work to make it more fair is also really small...

At the end of the day H2H being "more fair" is only a matter of opinion. There are equally more arguments on why H2H should not be used and is just as "not fair".

The rules are set. Stick with it and this is a highly unlikely scenario in any case.

At the end of the day H2H being "more fair" is only a matter of opinion. There are equally more arguments on why H2H should not be used and is just as "not fair".

Alright, let's keep this simple:
Do you have any arguments why total points scored decides the better team? No.
Any arguments for H2H? Yes.
Any arguments for strength of victory? Yes.

The rules are set. Stick with it and this is a highly unlikely scenario in any case.

That's not the issue... I have no power to change the rules so I'm not trying to.

Any arguments for H2H? Yes.

for me head to head make less sense, it is a league system which is decided by the games against all teams. So why it should be more important how you play against team X just because you ended with the same wins? Is he better then you, just because his style of game is fit better to your team, even when he struggle with it against other teams?

And especially here when close games, end pretty curious through end game logic, which is maybe not so important over 22 games, because random functions get more close over more trys.

And in BB you also get the problem, that you don't play your best guys every time, so this comparision would be also a decided of the schedule in this week, instead of quality which should be pretty much the same-

Any arguments for strength of victory? Yes.

if a team better which could concentrate against the top teams, but play loose against bet teams? Or is an constant team better?
Maybe i understand the strength of competion, but strength of victorys no - a league system is decided by games against all teams.

Last edited by CrazyEye at 12/21/2010 4:00:52 AM

Do you have any arguments why total points scored decides the better team? No.

There have been plenty of arguments made above. You just chose to ignore them.

Any arguments for H2H? Yes.

No doubt there are

Any arguments for strength of victory? Yes.

That again is just a matter of your opinion. Both arguments are equally valid. Your inability to accept the other arguments or even acknowledge them just shows plain ignorance.

Last edited by Monkeybiz at 12/21/2010 4:02:37 AM

So why it should be more important how you play against team X just because you ended with the same wins? Is he better then you, just because his style of game is fit better to your team, even when he struggle with it against other teams?

You're forgetting the point. If "he struggle with it against other teams" then he probably will not be in the mix for playoffs. If he is, then the other tied team is just as equally "struggling." So, play two struggling teams against each other (remember: they are struggling almost equally - same record, same points differential) --> the better team should win. Logic: Team A plays Team B. Which team is more likely to win? The better or worse?
And I didn't say H2H is perfect, it is just better than total points.

if a team better which could concentrate against the top teams, but play loose against bet teams? Or is an constant team better?
Maybe i understand the strength of competion, but strength of victorys no - a league system is decided by games against all teams.

Strength of competition would work too. (It would basically be which conference is stronger)