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Game Engine question

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157112.44 in reply to 157112.43
Date: 9/20/2010 3:51:38 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
522522
I guess it comes down to your interpretation of what recalcuation means.

This Post:
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157112.45 in reply to 157112.44
Date: 9/20/2010 9:27:36 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
6161
That's what I am beginning to think as well. I thought it would simply re-calculate the game each time something happened that adversely affected one team or another, to bring you to the end result. This maybe true, but suggestion seems to point to every aspect from shots made & missed to free throws changing momentum in the game. If this is true, it's a real nice aspect to the game. No wonder there's 10k lines of code.

Right is not a popularity contest!
This Post:
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157112.46 in reply to 157112.45
Date: 9/20/2010 10:20:57 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
522522
Yeah i think that is the way it is. Momentum is coded in to the game so it supports my theory. There is a BB post saying that somewhere.

This Post:
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157112.47 in reply to 157112.38
Date: 9/20/2010 2:04:38 PM
Arizona Cacti
III.8
Overall Posts Rated:
276276
First Event: Who wins the jump ball? Game engine looks at both players skills, works out a probability, (so maybe 75% to player A and 25% to player B).


I've always wondered how this was determined. It would make sense if it just took a player's height into effect as that's the most relevant factor in a jump ball situation where jumping is not evaluated one way or another.


Game engine looks at players jump shot, jump range, opponents defense, experience, opponents shot blocking, players driving, etc etc. Works out the probability of making the shot is 10% and 90% chance of missing the shot. Applies the probability and in this case the shot is missed. Now we move on to the next event.


I think this is pretty close. I have a couple additions though. I think these calculations are made by the player, not the engine and whether or not the shot is then taken depends on experience. For example a player with good experience would not take a 10% shot unless the shot clock was very low whereas a player with high experience would pass or attempt to drive. I infer this based on a BB's comment that players with high experience "make the smart choice." Moving on. For argument's sake, let's say the player does shoot. At this point, the driving would already have been factored in (if he did drive, odds are the % would increase, unless he drove into the zone of a better defender) as would a good pass that led to this shot which would increase the odds of a successful shot. I believe the next factor put in is the opposing player's shotblocking as a shot block will make any additional calculations pointless. If the shot is not blocked THEN game engine moves on to calculating the % of shot going in simply by comparing players jump shot (or inside shot) and jump range against the applicable type of defense of the opposing player. Enthusiasm, stamina, etc add or detract from the overall calculations.


As you can see, each event is based on the previous event/events. So after each event the probabilities for the next event need to be recalculated.


This. I disagree with OP's inference that everything is predetermined and subscribe to the theory that each event within a game is (nearly) independent of any other event in that game and only takes into account changes in stamina or possibly momentum. Each play takes the skills of the players, the score, the offenses and defenses and said changes stamina and churns out a resulting play based on these numbers. Basically, I think Naker is correct and is saying the same thing as this but I just wanted to clarify a couple points.

This Post:
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157112.48 in reply to 157112.47
Date: 9/20/2010 2:44:40 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
459459
As you can see, each event is based on the previous event/events. So after each event the probabilities for the next event need to be recalculated.


I don't think things are "recalculated." They are just calculated based on what has happened in the preceding event. For example if a shot is missed, the next calculation is for a rebound. If the shot is made, then it moves on to the next offensive possession. I suggest reading the game manual section entitle, "game engine." The final score is not determined before the simulation is run, but it is determined before you get to watch it "live."

(http://www.buzzerbeater.com/community/rules.aspx?nav=Game...)

Last edited by somdetsfinest at 9/20/2010 2:51:11 PM

Once I scored a basket that still makes me laugh.
This Post:
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157112.49 in reply to 157112.48
Date: 9/20/2010 10:05:34 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
522522
I don't think things are "recalculated."

As I said earlier, I think this whole discussion comes down to each person's own definition of what recalculated means.

For example if a shot is missed, the next calculation is for a rebound. If the shot is made, then it moves on to the next offensive possession.

While this is true, I think there is more to it.
For example, I think that if the shot is made, then the percentages change because the score has changed. Momentum has changed and so calculations are different.

This Post:
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157112.50 in reply to 157112.49
Date: 9/21/2010 12:36:04 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
459459
I really don't think there is much debate about what recalculated means. If something has not yet been calculated, it cannot be recalculated. In your example, regardless of the outcome, the next event will not yet have been calculated until the preceding event occurs. Recalculated and different parameters for the calculations are not the same thing. The calculations change every possession because of a variety of factors, not just a different score. Furthermore, I certainly hope that momentum does not swing after a single basket. That would, in the majority of cases, be very unrealistic.

At any rate, it is a silly argument. The main point is that games are simulated play by play. The play by play is not created after the final score is decided.

Last edited by somdetsfinest at 9/21/2010 12:39:19 AM

Once I scored a basket that still makes me laugh.
This Post:
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157112.51 in reply to 157112.50
Date: 9/21/2010 12:44:35 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
522522
Furthermore, I certainly hope that momentum does not swing after a single basket. That would, in the majority of cases, be very unrealistic.


Momentum wouldn't change after every basket, but if the other team has scored 12 goals in a row and then misses then that could easily change momentum. Or my shooting guard misses 10 shots in a row and then gets one I think the momentum has changed. And I think this is similar to real life.

This Post:
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157112.52 in reply to 157112.51
Date: 9/21/2010 3:41:50 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
459459
Those would be instances not in the majority of cases, and I agree with you about them.

Last edited by somdetsfinest at 9/21/2010 3:49:12 AM

Once I scored a basket that still makes me laugh.
This Post:
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157112.54 in reply to 157112.53
Date: 9/21/2010 5:45:54 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
275275
Has been mentioned.

Can you smell what the Hobos are cooking... oh wait its just Roger. (18085274)
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