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Basketball has changed a lot in this (not so many) years. Players are now faster and stronger, defenses have improved a lot, rules have changed, etc...

NBA has also made it easier for guards/driving players to dominate the game. Jordan was a freak athlete 20 years ago the same as he would be today. The only difference is the refs would have made it even easier for him to score.

(http://thereal2kinsider.blogspot.com/2010/02/history-of-n...)

Here's a pretty good run of the rules. Jordan was at his scoring peak at a time before 2 levels of hand-checking rules had been applied, particularly all the changes in 2002.

Since Jordan was gone, the NBA needed to try to make it easier for everyone else to be Jordan-esque.

Last edited by brian at 6/14/2011 8:44:26 AM

players run faster and are stronger

like that one really fast strong guy that helped kill Miami, what's his name...JJ Barea

AND finally, if we are trying to fake a time machine and put Lebron as he is now playing in the past, I'm quite sure he would be the best player and would dominate the League even above Jordan as he is taller, faster and stronger and has a very close talent. But is just an opinion, it's impossible to prove any of this.

Wow..this is bringing the crazy. LeBron can be a lock down defender at Jordan's level when he chooses to be in the game (as if lack of consistency alone doesn't bring this conversation to a grinding halt), but offensively LBJ just doesn't have the same tools.

Last edited by brian at 6/14/2011 9:07:13 AM

There's a reason for all those rule changes: Defenses started to get better and better, so the points per game were dropping and for marketing purposes it doesn't seem to be a good thing, to say the rules were changed to help other guards to be Jordan isn't serious. You disagree?? Watch the videos, watch a Bill Chamberlain game, then watch Lakers vs Celtics in the 80's, then Chicago vs Utah in the 90s, then the Kobe Shaq Lakers vs whatever in the 00s and then watch again last week final games.

There was another fact that proves the improvement in individual & team defenses: the offenses changed from 95% close to the basket points in Chamberlain - Rusell era to what we got today were in FIBA (shorter dimmensions plus pure zone defense allowed) & in NCAA there are teams shooting from 3p range as much as from the 2p. You disagree?? Go check the stats: 3p attempts per game evolution in the NBA in only the last 40 years... Bird used to make less than 1 3P per game and only 2 attempts per game and in his time he was recognized as a great 3p shooter... that's a clue if you don't want to go check stats.

Watch Lakers vs Celtics in the 80s and you'll be surprised as how slow and naive were the defensive reactions. It looks like a training match, there's no D if you compare it with what you are used to watch today. It's all in youtube...

So my point is: there was a very different defensive opposition then than now and that's not a detail, a minor issue, as it's not the same if you play covered by Turkoglu or by Lebron James, to score 20 vs Turkoglu is not the same than scoring 20 vs Lebron, you don't have to work as hard to get those 20 pts. SO it DOES MAKE A DIFFERENCE and that's what it makes this comparison impossible and useless.

You have 2 ways of seeing it: you can think all current players are worse than the ones they learned of by watching them on TV and the rules were changed to compensate that lack of talent or you can accept that the people learns from the past, team tactics get better, scouting is now better, defenses get better, and logically, the current players are better athletes and better basketball players if it was possible to travel through time and take them to the past because of better training, better knowledge of defense but not necesarily because of more talent.

So what you want to compare: impact in the game?? Mental attributes?? Jordan by a mile. No doubt. But that's as far as I'd go.

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_Caj1bkb7Q)

just as an example I bring up this video... it's not in slow motion, you are watching the "fast break makers" vs the Celtics...

can you compare the stats of any of this players with any of the players who currently play in NBA?? You gotta be kidding

No D, no speed, no offensive motion, etc... it looks like a senior exhibition game but they were the 2 best teams in the 80s playing a final game.

Hey (talking to the Celtics hall of fame players playing (on) defense), the bold tall guy is Abdul Jabbar, do you know him, he will kill you with his hooks if you don't double team, don't fight por position in the paint, don't try to make it hard to give him the ball, etc... it looks like a joke, but it's a serious game with 2 teams full of HoF and no defense at all.

So I rest my case fellas, we can't compare.

But wouldn't the reasons the players today (training) are stronger/faster be applied to any player of "then" that we brought forward to "now"?
Same with putting LeBron "back". He wouldn't have the same training, nor would he have had the benefits he accrued since he was a kid.

But wouldn't the reasons the players today (training) are stronger/faster be applied to any player of "then" that we brought forward to "now"?
Same with putting LeBron "back". He wouldn't have the same training, nor would he have had the benefits he accrued since he was a kid.

Nope. That's the pretty part of the time machine, we compare them as they are vs as they were and in that only scenario Lebron is better than michael Jordan because I´m quite sure MJ would have adapted his play and training to whatever was necessary to dominate. That mentality made him the best.

However, I also think Lebron makes his teammates better players, Cleveland finished regular season as number 1 with him and last without him, that's how important he was.

Fair enough... if that's the limits of the time machine then (so... we can't bring 'em back/forward when they're younger?), understood.

Sidenote: how do you guys think the Finals impacted this entire conversation?

AND finally, if we are trying to fake a time machine and put Lebron as he is now playing in the past, I'm quite sure he would be the best player and would dominate the League even above Jordan as he is taller, faster and stronger and has a very close talent. But is just an opinion, it's impossible to prove any of this.

First of all, if LeBron were to play in the past, he couldn't have been on steroids so domination is out of the question

BUT if we are trying to compare stats that's impossible as they don't face the same opposition and don't play the same kinda basketball.

agree with you on this one, However, Jordan did play in 2002 and played quite well so...

There's a reason for all those rule changes: Defenses started to get better and better, so the points per game were dropping and for marketing purposes it doesn't seem to be a good thing, to say the rules were changed to help other guards to be Jordan isn't serious. You disagree?? Watch the videos, watch a Bill Chamberlain game, then watch Lakers vs Celtics in the 80's, then Chicago vs Utah in the 90s, then the Kobe Shaq Lakers vs whatever in the 00s and then watch again last week final games.

Are you serious? Defense now in the NBA, is as poor as it ever was. If you watched playoff basketball when Jordan, Miller, and the Knicks in particular were playing you'd see what i mean.

watch Lakers vs Celtics in the 80s and you'll be surprised as how slow and naive were the defensive reactions. It looks like a training match, there's no D if you compare it with what you are used to watch today. It's all in youtube..

the 80s are NOT the discussion of the thread however physicality was at it's best back then.

So what you want to compare: impact in the game?? Mental attributes?? Jordan by a mile. No doubt. But that's as far as I'd go.

I will add defense, and team play(!) on Jordan's part, and involving everyone. He was a team-oriented player despite his scoring ability.

And for Lebron i would just add much more hype, and that's as far as i would go


EDIT: and the way he reacts to physical defenders that are on him is just awful, and childish

Last edited by Boston Celts at 6/15/2011 4:15:55 AM

I will add defense, and team play(!) on Jordan's part, and involving everyone. He was a team-oriented player despite his scoring ability.

And shooting. Jordan was a MUCH better shooter...

Fair enough... if that's the limits of the time machine then (so... we can't bring 'em back/forward when they're younger?), understood.

Sidenote: how do you guys think the Finals impacted this entire conversation?

A young current player (lebron in this example) is sent to past to play vs those players when they were playing (so young too).

The finals only made more visible what was already not a mistery: Lebron James (currently, at least) lacks the mental strenght required to match his talent.

Last edited by Supermán at 6/15/2011 6:19:28 AM