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In my opinion scouting is not the big issue here. I did pretty extensive scouting last season (note that you really have to do this once a season). It's all pretty automated and in the "Real english federation" there is a list of the players worth looking at.

The problem is that it's difficult (impossible?) to get potential stars trained to fulfill their potential. I found it impossible to get the right players in places where they'd get trained properly. Apart from some remarkable few players, that is why our NT efforts are lagging...

Obviously whoever gets elected will get the list of potentials, best draftees for this season, etc. etc. So the partial knowledge of the player pool the candidates have now is not all that relevant...

Of course, I agree. That is the thing that I try to explain to Astragoth. Is difficult put training players like We want as NT. We have to understand what users think about that. The NT is not the Transfer list, we have good players and good potencial, it's obviously, but the results are bad (in U-21) for this team. And we have many good players that never was in NT. I know them.

Astragoth, I'm not here to put you down I just want to know what ideas you have to present. You never did what exactly you want for this NT. You speech is not conclusive.

Astragoth: I didn't realise you were wanting the U-21 job until today in which case (and after reading your speech) I will remove myself from the running of the job and will assist you (if you will have me) in the scouting of players (which I have already started).

I feel this should be a joint approach and as you have had the close experience of working with previous U21/National managers then you have my backing. I hope that with my support and contribution from hence forward it will have me (hopefully) in the running for any future NT jobs.

I didnt really want to run, but received quite some positive feedback that I should run, so I decided to do so.

I would love to be a team and try to run the U21 together and perhaps work together in the future again running the NT team... However, I dont think we will ever be very succesfull, the highest goal we can ever achieve is qualifying for the second round. But I dont really think we would win many games there.

In my opinion scouting is not the big issue here. I did pretty extensive scouting last season (note that you really have to do this once a season). It's all pretty automated and in the "Real english federation" there is a list of the players worth looking at.

The problem is that it's difficult (impossible?) to get potential stars trained to fulfill their potential. I found it impossible to get the right players in places where they'd get trained properly. Apart from some remarkable few players, that is why our NT efforts are lagging...

Obviously whoever gets elected will get the list of potentials, best draftees for this season, etc. etc. So the partial knowledge of the player pool the candidates have now is not all that relevant...


Of course, I agree. That is the thing that I try to explain to Astragoth. Is difficult put training players like We want as NT. We have to understand what users think about that. The NT is not the Transfer list, we have good players and good potencial, it's obviously, but the results are bad (in U-21) for this team. And we have many good players that never was in NT. I know them.

Astragoth, I'm not here to put you down I just want to know what ideas you have to present. You never did what exactly you want for this NT. You speech is not conclusive.

now i am convinced there is a communications problem, or you havent read my speech at all.

Why do you try to explain this to me, when I am the first to say exactly the same? I even took part in this discussion on the forums when we as an english community discussed these issues.

off course my speech isnt conclusive, because there is no conclusive answer on how to get more out off the english community or english players pool being available to us. If you think you have a conclusive answer to this problem that we have trying to solve for many seasons now, than I do believe you are wrong. Simply because I dont think you have more knowledge to the game and wont put more time into the job than waggyrob for example has done and he didnt really find a conclusive answer to the problem either. Im not saying he did a bad job, because I helped him and I know how much time and effort he put into running the National team. ps I said before he is the U21 coach instead off the National coach...

Please explain to us what your conclusive answer is to this problem and please tell us why you feel other U21 coaches thus far have failed to make the U21 team to qualify into the second round



Last edited by Astragoth at 9/9/2009 10:48:15 AM

that is what I have noticed too and said in my speech... exactly the same thing. or well, i tried to say that if this isnt clear to some people...

There will always be trainable players, however most coaches dont train these decent players or put them up a few times a season for inflated prices and training time is being lost... My main idea as stated in my speech is to persuade coaches to train these players or persuade them to sell these players at a fair price so they do get sold and hopefully trained.

I give you an example. David Beckham when was adquired by LA Galaxy, England coach, in this year(Fabio Capello) didnt like, 'cause when he wanted him to play for England, the football style and training season, was different and his games wouldn't be the same. After every problems the solution was the loan to AC Milan. And that results. In BB is the "same" thing when the NT coach want a player in team but they can't be in list 'cause don't have the require qualities but you have to understand if that player makes the difference in users team but he has other objectives.

But because of that we can't ask him for a sell, that's my opinion. Players? there are more than one, but team only one.

You're right but when you wrote this I was, too ;)

Fenómeno said: good candidature.... How you think to be a NT U-21 coach if you don't know the team, if you don't know how you can search the players. The draft is enough for you? After your post I see that you don't know what a NT needs, or if you know show us.

I think that if you really want this, you should have a plan and for now I don't see anything. And by the way, an "excel sheet" don't give us what we really need. England NT diserve more than have at this moment and need someone that can have a training plan, helping plan, interaction plan... and many many more. The only thing that I saw was: you prefer a English Coach and don't want a good NT team.

I believe this was aimed at me rather than Astragoth. In which case let me answer:

I didn't see any proof of what you are saying in your speech.

With regards the following points:

Training Plan: Why should I have to inform no TELL a manager how and what they should train their own players in? I expect most BB managers will know exactly how to train their own players!! If they want help from me I would have been available to answer their queries.

Helping Plan: I don't believe I need a plan to help people.

Interaction Plan: Well my 'plan' was to use the England Forums to promote the U-21s as I mentioned in my speech with interaction with the members of said forum on players/tactics/games etc.

Anyway, I have now ruled myself out of the U-21 position and am backing Astragoth.

Training plan: I give you a good example. I've this player in mind Len McGuigan (team SiSiSibenka). I have to know what the user want to this this player and explain what I what I want.If he agrees, good if they not agree I've to search for another player or a better resolution. That's the begining I think. But ok.

Helping Plan. The new players need to learn more about the game to be competitive and train English players, if they have.

Interaction plan: It's obviously that in England, just elboss talk about anything. I'm surprised with that debate because so many peopel talk when they need, but in the rest of the season, they don't appear.

You make a good point, you cant tell other coaches what and how to train and you normally would expect other coaches to train players in a certain way.

But this is where I think is the main issue in this game and why I love this game. In hattrick, i hope you all played this game, a midfielder you train by training playmaking to a high level and than train a little bit passing. in buzzerbeater you have several different options on how to play a player (this is my opion so dont tell me I am wrong) and there are thousands off opions when you ask thousands off coaches... If you read the forums people never agree. However, instead off trying to understand why someone has an opinion or trying to explain why they have made that decision on how to train their players, they keep telling the others are wrong or repeat what others already have said.

However, you can "educate" players. (this is the wrong word because it sounds patronising, but dont know what other word to use). Let me try and explain. As I said I have seen many good potentially U21 players being waisted not being trained and being sold for too high prices. As I agree, you cant tell a player what to do, however I can ask a player to train the player and if he informs me he isnt going to, ask him to sell him if he isnt already doing so. If he than asks way too much, I would advise him to lower the prize to something I feel is more accurate and will guarantee him a sale. In this way, everyone could benefit from this and I would also address this. The team in question does sell the player and get extra income, and doesnt have to pay the players salary. Also he might sell him at the start off the season, instead off realising until later in the season or the start off the next season that he needs to lower the price. Off course in that case it is too late for himself, because the player will have less value and valuable training time is being lost.

I dont think that there is much more you can do besides setting up a good scouting plan (I am quite sure there is a database off some kind already, since I did help scout in the past) and my idea above to advice and request players to be trained or sold in time so he can be trained... It is that up to the coach to train him and for me to fit him into the U21 team...

Training plan: I give you a good example. I've this player in mind Len McGuigan (team SiSiSibenka). I have to know what the user want to this this player and explain what I what I want.If he agrees, good if they not agree I've to search for another player or a better resolution. That's the begining I think. But ok.

Helping Plan. The new players need to learn more about the game to be competitive and train English players, if they have.

Interaction plan: It's obviously that in England, just elboss talk about anything. I'm surprised with that debate because so many peopel talk when they need, but in the rest of the season, they don't appear.

again it is quite clear you have no knowledge off the english community and what has happened over the last few seasons with regards to the U21 and the National team. And what even more suprises me is that you assume you know what the english community is like, without ever having participated in it or asking what it was like. There is an off side forum we used to use, like I mentioned before and this was widely advertised to all english coaches and we had a whopping 4 active members taking part in debates about the national team.

Like so many other questions i asked you and you havent answered yet, how do you think you can get more english coaches to become more active when it comes to the U21 and English national team?

There are so many variables in that. There's an old saying which goes well: You can please some people all of the time, all of the people some of the time but you can't please all of the people all of the time.
Saying to someone to train a SG inside shot when they usually play Run and Gun will take some pursuading, are you willing to do this? It's all well and good in having a 'plan' but I doubt you'll follow through with it.