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with the current effort system you could compensate quality with effort, and if that team is that superior that he wins every game with TIE vs a normal, he won't loose with normal vs normal, and if you have a team which could beat him he should be able to play tie too - but if he don't risk wins against those teams like the superior team you are afraid of , he get a disadvantage aginst the superior team who play tie in direct confrontation.

you mean like Roger Federer?
or Schumacher some time ago?
sometimes you just don't need to put too much effort in a game and play relaxed... tie isn't lack of effort, it's just a more relaxed approach to the game, avoiding injuries, avoiding running three feet behind a guy who's gonna dunk a fastbreak and losing stamina and so on...

This is a good point, however the enthusiasm mechanism is not really implemented in accordance to rhis, or at least the effects of the effort (TIE/normal/CT) are not related to your list. Currently teams that TIE gain enthusiasm independently of the outcome of the game. In reality no team would gain enthusiasm if they lost a game just because their coach told them before the game that "they should not really care too much". Instead if you lost a game with a few points after putting less effort than you could have, then you ar probably more likely to loose more enthusiasm (as you know you could have done a lot better then you did).

In fact, the reason that coaches in real life chooses to put less effort in some games has nothig to do with enthusiasm, but with other effects, mainly like injuries and game shape as you already mentioned.

The "game shape effect" is already partly availble in the game by other mechanisms (time management and selection of coach type). The same could be said about the "injury effect" (coach type and doctor). However, their is a possibility of adding a dimension to this; if TIE/normal/CT affected injuries and game shape rather than enthusiasm the mechanism would be more logical and tactical appealing in my opinion.

For instance if you tell your players to TIE a game, playing too many minutes would not affect game shape as bad, and the players would be less affected by injuries (and perhaps training would not be as efficient due to the lacj of effort), while if you play CT your players would probably loose more game shape and be more subject to injuries.

there is some wisdom to what you said.
I talked about injuries and stamina and stuff just as an imaginary thing that I like to think is the effect of TIE

I think the biggest problem here is the word : enthusiasm
if we could substitute that one with, idk, energy, freshness, or something, it would work better

@everyone :
you all seem to forget that ent raises and drops slowly each day gravitating towards 5, that's already a compensating mechanism

The diversity of posibilities is, only by that which kind of effort you choose, pretty wide. For example you can TIE matches in which you are sure that you have no chance, which is in fact the most unrealistic factor in this game. If you speak about the motivation - is hard to say what to do with that, but I think that this "TIE cap" I suggest have to do anything about it. Or maybe I dont understand you.

Last edited by aigidios at 12/28/2009 12:27:47 PM

The diversity of posibilities is, only by that which kind of effort you choose, pretty wide. For example you can TIE matches in which you are sure that you have no chance, which is in fact the most unrealistic factor in this game. If you speak about the motivation - is hard to say what to do with that, but I think that this "TIE cap" I suggest have to do anything about it. Or maybe I dont understand you.

i don't see how the tie cap should change anything, and i don't understand why the possibility of TIE'ing games just help the good teams - i see chanches for the weak team to ebat the good ones instead through it. The good team would be in advantage without options in this direction.

I think the biggest problem here is the word : enthusiasm
if we could substitute that one with, idk, energy, freshness, or something, it would work better

Partially correct I would say, but I also think that it is quite a clumpsy system as it is implemented today and does not have the same finess as the rest of BBs "tactical machinery". Furthermore the effect is too big in comparison to other mechanisms in the game. It tastes more Hattrick then BuzzerBeater so to speak.

I agree with the game shape. If it would be like that, the thing would change completely and would solve many problems. Perhaps it is like that now because of Hattrick, I wake up screaming at the middle of the night sometimes when I remember Hattrick that day. Today will be my night so long, thank you.

The diversity of posibilities is, only by that which kind of effort you choose, pretty wide. For example you can TIE matches in which you are sure that you have no chance, which is in fact the most unrealistic factor in this game. If you speak about the motivation - is hard to say what to do with that, but I think that this "TIE cap" I suggest have to do anything about it. Or maybe I dont understand you.

i don't see how the tie cap should change anything, and i don't understand why the possibility of TIE'ing games just help the good teams - i see chanches for the weak team to ebat the good ones instead through it. The good team would be in advantage without options in this direction.

This depends a lot on how much better a team is. For instance in the Swedish league Hoop Hoop Horray (now not longer in the game) used to be, and Bissy is, so superior to the rest that they can keep playing TIE after TIE after TIE in the series and be sure that they have a huge enthusiasm advantage on the other teams once the playoffs arrive, as the other teams all have to fight to reach the playoffs. On the other hand, in leagues where the nest team is only a little bit better then the rest then they can win by better enthusiasm-management. In other words, ideally the enthusiasm mechanism has the kind of usage that it is implemented for, but in leagues with different balane it can have the opposite effect then what it is probably intended for by the game designers.

So if the team play against Hoop hooray, with normal vs normal it starts winning, when if have no chanche with normal vs TIE? The team who have chanches with normal against normal against them, should have the same possibilities to play tie like hoop against the opponents and should have the same advantage and in this case it becomes a strategic part, if you play TIE and loose a game which could cost the hca against the other superior team, or if you play normal more often win all leagues secure and have a sligthly disadvantage in the confrontation with the other superior team, which could cost also hca which will be a deciding factor in the PO.

But it isn't a changing anything in favour for hoop, that his team play in a kindergarten if you remove tie.

PS: Ok in the BBB, he got an advantage through it, because other team have more serious competition in their other games.

Last edited by CrazyEye at 12/28/2009 12:50:25 PM

So if the team play against Hoop hooray, with normal vs normal it starts winning, when if have no chanche with normal vs TIE? The team who have chanches with normal against normal against them, should have the same possibilities to play tie like hoop against the opponents and should have the same advantage and in this case it becomes a strategic part, if you play TIE and loose a game which could cost the hca against the other superior team, or if you play normal more often win all leagues secure and have a sligthly disadvantage in the confrontation with the other superior team, which could cost also hca which will be a deciding factor in the PO.

But it isn't a changing anything in favour for hoop, that his team play in a kindergarten if you remove tie.

PS: Ok in the BBB, he got an advantage through it, because other team have more serious competition in their other games.

No, that's not correct. The thing was that no team used to be good enough to win against Hoop Hoop Hooray (HHH) except perhaps if they threw away a CT agaianst a TIE from HHH. Thus, all other teams new that they had to throw away their chances of reaching the playoffs by playing CT agaianst HHH if they wanted a realistic chance to win. Consequently we all chose to play TIE against them, which they knew of course. Thus HHH could play TIE without even worrying about the opponent playing CT, and as the season progressed and enthusiasm was built they only became more and more dominant.

but in the end it don't make any different with this sort of dominance, and sometimes it helps to risk soetimes a bit ;)

The bulls and Laim, also get a lot of gift out of respect but if you try it, you get get those extra win against them.

Last edited by CrazyEye at 12/28/2009 1:07:48 PM