BuzzerBeater Forums

So... Love has good stats. Isn't that what I've been saying?
No-one's denying "he-has-good-stats", just that the reason he accumulates them isn't altogether altruistic as far as his team-play goes.

And really? You guys are going to throw Kelly Dwyer at me? Next you'll be using Henry Abbott as a reason why Kobe shouldn't be in the ASG.

Not just 'good' stats, but amazing stats.

No... that phrase would intimate that I/you/people are in amazement at his stats, and whilst "very good", they do not induce awe, or any other response of that ilk.
"Amazing stats" would be the province of Magic Johnson. Of Kareem Abdul Jabbar. Of Wilt.

No... that phrase would intimate that I/you/people are in amazement at his stats, and whilst "very good", they do not induce awe, or any other response of that ilk.

Speak for yourself, sir. I am in awe.

"Amazing stats" would be the province of Magic Johnson. Of Kareem Abdul Jabbar. Of Wilt.

Those are amazing players, who got to be so called by putting up amazing stats year after year. Kareem would look at his stats and think 'those are better numbers than I ever put up'

Kareem would look at his stats and think 'those are better numbers than I ever put up'

Say what?
Love is currently on 21.6 ppg with 15.6 boards. That's a helluva long way short of Kareem's 34.8 ppg with 16.6 rpg.
Love's gotta very, very long way to go before he's worthy of having his name in the same area code, let alone conversation, with #33.

OK, I get it. You are going to hate Love no matter what.

Wait man, I never said I hate him. I just don't "love Love" like you do.
It's an opinion, and I recognise that it's one that's really hard to quantify other than anecdotally.
Your stance is far more popular, and far easier to support too.

But really - "no matter what"? I'm not sure what you mean there...
You can't say stuff like you said about Kareem, then not expect to get called on it if it's wrong.
That's fair... right?

It's a good thing Kareem has you in his corner.

Back when Alcindor was in his second year he scored almost 32 ppg, and avg'd 16 RB per game.Some people started comparing him to Wilt. Others were outraged by the comparison saying not in his wildest dreams, there is no one like Wilt. Is Love putting up the same numbers? no. Some would say Kareem faced tougher opposition than Wilt, some could say the same about comparing Love to Kareem. There is no doubt in my mind that the level of athleticism in the NBA is much higher than it was in Wilts day, or Kareems for that matter. No different today. When Kobe first hit the scene, many said he was the new Jordan. Many others were offended at even the notion that someone could ever be like Jordan. Kind of how you are treating Love. With every new generation wwe see alot of young talent every year, and we know a few of them will go on to be all time greats. All time greats arent just from the past, they are being made as we speak as well.

It seems odd to me that you are such a big basketball fan. For someone who doesnt like showoffs, players who make egotistical statements (like im going to win the RB title) and stat whores it sure seems you picked the wrong sport to love. Some of the biggest names in basketball over the decades have been nothing different than how you see Love. A stat whore who cares more for his image and numbers than anything else. That seems to be NBA standard.

If you want to 'dislike' on Love that is your choice, I respect that. If you expect me or others who watch him and think 'wow' to feel the same as you, that is a much longer walk.

Last edited by buzzerbeatme at 2/2/2011 10:12:58 AM

Well... firstly, it's a bit disappointing this appears to be headed into acrimonious waters. Was enjoying it.
However, I can assure you there's no malevolence in where I'm standing...

So anyway:
Does Kareem need anyone in his corner?

Dude... I never said I wanted you to dislike him. I don't think I even said I dislike him. I just explained why a) I'm not a huge fan, and b) I didn't think he should be in the all star game. I'll respect your decision to go the other way, and I'll offer no provisos on that.

I'm sure there are players you dislike... for whatever reason.
And c'mon man? Dime-store psycho-analysis of my fandom? Where did I state that I didn't like/enjoy the flash/glory of the NBA? I did say that I don't like it when players put themselves before the game (don't like it when Kobe does it, and I'm a Lakers fan! Example: the 7 assists in the first quarter against Houston...), and I *believe* Kevin Love does that on a nightly basis.
And why do you think that's predominant?

I will tell you that I think Love has - generally - a good head on his shoulders. I enjoyed it when he went up against LeBron in the press on the issue of contraction. And I guess I enjoy his honesty.
I just don't like the way he single-mindedly chases rebounds... when it means that he might miss a rotation on defense.
I also recognise that I am definitely in the minority on this stance.

Not sure what you mean by dime-store psycho analysis. NBA is a game a flash, stats, ego, and finally competition. That is how I and many I talk to feel about it. I was only saying that for anyone to expect otherwise is a pipe dream. NBA players get paid almost exlusively based on stats with rare exception. So to expect any player to lower his stats for the good of the team doesnt seem like a good bet. For someone who stated they dont like players who put themselves first, the NBA seems a strange place to worship. Not psycho analyzing you, and I feel you stating this is just an arguement strategy. Are we trying to win a debate or discussing basketball?

So, if stats and flash shouldnt get you in the all-star game, what criteria would you suggest? All team oriented players?

I agree that it sucks when some players put their personal achievements ahead of the team's. I also concede that Love is probably doing whatever he can to pad his stats. I would like to state why I think in Love's case this isnt such a bad thing. I welcome rebuttal :)

1. Turning a 10 win team into a 20 win team isnt much incentive to play the way you suggest (and I agree) he should. Not saying this makes it ok, just throwing it in the mix.

2. No one in Minnesota is buying tickets to see Felton or expecting a win. Really only one reason right now to go see the TWolves.

3. Basketball teams have such few players on their roster and most top lottery picks go right in the lineup. Getting a shot at the first pick, and adding a potential starter to a team with Love allready in place can turn that team around. Especially if they add a FA to Love, Felton, and a #1 pick. It sounds like a poor sportsmanship approach, perhaps it is, but I bet the GM is thinking the same thing.

As a fellow Laker fan I am betting you think this next statement is blasphemous, but here goes.....If the TWolves offered a trade straight up Love for Bynum (your piuck for AS starter) I would jump at that trade in a hot second.

Last edited by buzzerbeatme at 2/3/2011 3:17:03 PM

NBA players get paid almost exlusively based on stats with rare exception. So to expect any player to lower his stats for the good of the team doesnt seem like a good bet.

If any of have read the work of Sport Economist David Berri, he runs a bunch of numbers and essentially concludes that NBA players get paid mostly based on how many points they score and from a financial sense it makes more sense for him to take more "bad" shots than pass the ball to a teammate for a higher percentage shot.