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This is why I said 'probably', not 'he 100% doped, I know for a fact'

This whole I can't be bothered clearing my name anymore thing I struggle with. If I was accused of doping, I'd be doing everything possible to clear my name. The cynical bastard in me suggests that he'd rather go down as a suspected drug cheat rather than be proven to be one in the courts.

But yes, I agree noone except for those involved will ever really know.

I think everyone accept that athletes are generally getting better and better each year with better technology, nutrition, training and medicine. Yet overall cyclists were 5% faster on the climb sections of the Tour de France on the dark days of 1996-2006. How is it that everyone is now much worse than they used to be? One answer seems obvious.

Also for all these claims that Lance never failed a drug test, that isn't true. He was caught twice. "One in 1999 for steroids and again in 1999 for the red cell boosting drug, EPO." http://www.forbes.com/sites/richkarlgaard/2012/06/13/lanc...

By the way this article has another interesting point, but one that isn't proof. It asks if everyone else was cheating and getting a massive advantage how could he possibly win against them?

None of these forms of evidence which include many, many people that rode with him saying that he doped may be good enough to prove beyond reasonable doubt that he doped. But in my heart being able to disqualify damming tests on technicalities doesn't make him innocent.

It isn't just one piece of evidence like the sworn testimony of those that rode with him, or failed drug tests, or statistical analysis it is just a massive wall of evidnce. Looks like it will never be proven in court but it is proven to me.

Despite all of this is he still a hero. The common belief now is that they were ALL doping and so in a bizarre way he was competing on a level playing field. So I have a bizarre opinion. I consider that he was a drug cheat, but in an era when everyone was he is still the seven time champion and an inspiration to me.

Some real great thoughts there Yoda. Brilliantly written. I agree with pretty much everything you have said.

I always tend to be an optimist so I still want to believe that he was clean (and that I will smash Whitebeard on Saturday :-)

...being able to disqualify damming tests on technicalities doesn't make him innocent.

It doesn't make him guilty either.

I'm an agnostic; I have the humility to accept that I don't know. I will, though, have opinions and many of them. Ultimately, however, I understand and accept that they are still opinions.

So I have a bizarre opinion. I consider that he was a drug cheat, but in an era when everyone was he is still the seven time champion and an inspiration to me.

I share this opinion.

Last edited by Axis123 at 9/6/2012 2:14:28 AM

So I have a bizarre opinion. I consider that he was a drug cheat, but in an era when everyone was he is still the seven time champion and an inspiration to me.

So you are inspired to cheat? "P

(sorry, me just being facetious!)

Pfffff shuddup

so whos the better athlete...
bill russell or lebron james?

Is it even possible to compare someone that played in the '50's and '60's to someone that's playing now?

I think, given that, as a race, we are constantly improving, it is likely that Lebron James is a better athlete. That being said, it would be very difficult to tell for sure.

Except that as a race we are now 5% slower on climbs in international bike races than we were 10 years ago, but that is a different topic.

Except that as a race we are now 5% slower on climbs in international bike races than we were 10 years ago, but that is a different topic.

But that's most likely because of drug use.