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The simple answers are that I don't think arena costs are in any significant way responsible for users leaving the game.

Of course this was never the point and you should know better, after all the times I've accused you of misrepresenting opinions and assuming things that have never been said. We were talking about new users brought in by an app/marketing, not just any user, including current users.

Some arbitrary two year deadline to "complete" an arena

I think we have in fact established that 2 years is a reasonable time, based on actual examples.

there's simply nothing to substantiate that there is a groundswell of people who get frustrated at the cost of building an arena

People who leave the game, don't ofter threaten to do so in advance on the forums, they just stop logging in. However, the one person threatening to leave on the forums did ask explicitly to take his arena with him to a larger country. You should know, since he's one of your best forum buddies.

This is going nowhere, and we could either spend another hundred posts going nowhere without grace, or I can just walk away. I like that option better.

Let's see if you can stick to it. So far, with your last post, just piled up to the number of posts misrepresenting others' opinions.

We can't say theyre doing nothing. Is not a secret that they havent the enough resources to do what they want. Everyone have its point of view. Mine is that the most important thing now, is to save the game... And i think that an app should be a good way to take, will give to the game a huge boost of popularity for being the first game of this kind turned into an app, maybe not all the new players will stay because simply theyre not agree with this kind of browser game, but maybe behind that new player another will stay... And maybe behind that one who stays... There is another one who fell in love with the game and share the experience with his or her brother...

Well... Is just my point of view... Enjoy the game and lets see what happens.

Greets from Colombia!

I know arena is an important thing in this game because in come, but is a decision you make, I do not know when users decided that arena expansion was the top priority, because you can expand little and modify prices a lot.

Example :

Check this team arena:
(181561)

This guy managed to keep a small expansion but be competitive with nice income, inverting almost 2million less than other teams in his same division and getting incomes only 10 k to 20 k under them.

That say, what I think is more important than a faster way to expand arena, is make the prices changes more friendly.

Mate, what I'm saying is: do we want to increase the user base? It looks like it: the app is winning the poll. If so, my take is that we should try to keep as many new managers as possible. If introducing small changes can help with this, we should try to implement them.

What long term managers think is broken/unsatisfactory in the game, (LCD, GS training etc) is not necessarily what's problematic for new users. My opinion is that a 'long time' (so hrudey will be happy since apparently he contests the 2 year mark) to train players to their potential and to build the arena would be way way ahead in a poll for new users than for seasoned users.

Don't you think we should ask new users what they think about the game and the reasons why they might quit? It's not for me or you or hrudey to decide that. We might not care what they think (like CaptainTeemo) and perhaps even not care if there are any new users at all, but that's a different viewpoint altogether. If you want to keep them, what's relevant is what they think, not us.

On a side note, 'make training faster' is ranking third in the poll even among seasoned managers right after the App and killing blanks+LCD (I'd like to see that separate from additional minute management options though). I can't see that being anywhere other than 1st or 2nd in a poll for new users.


Last edited by Lemonshine at 11/7/2014 10:39:01 AM

As of now I would more use that thread as a discussion point than "the votes are meaning something".

Shall we throw the entire poll in the toilet and stop discussing about this then? Also I didn't see you complaining about numbers on other polls.

See here: (253111.1)
or here: (250719.1)
Both from a time when users were over 40k compared to today's 30k

3rd is still 3rd. It's 14 users out of 95 (and I voted for the app) and they think there is an issue with training which is bigger than dwindling numbers or blank/LCD.

Looks to me none of these polls will ever "mean anything" by the standards you decided to champion today.

The only poll I've ever seen that went over 300 votes is the following and was advertised by the BBs: (254079.1). Perhaps you could ask them to link the poll into an global announcement, so that we can get to the numbers you feel would "mean something".

Last edited by Lemonshine at 11/7/2014 11:16:32 AM

You like to go the the extreme, right ?

I expressly said that should be a discussion.

I got it now, but the point of the poll wasn't just to list the possible changes, but to indicate priorities. Isn't dismissing the numbers somewhat like defying the purpose of the whole thread?

Perhaps the numbers are low, but nobody is going to be able to base a discussion about what the priority should be without the poll.

Last edited by Lemonshine at 11/7/2014 11:47:20 AM

Apologies I misinterpreted your post and was changing it while you were replying.

I understand your frustration, but in this very thread I got a GM nearly trolling me. I think this is a good thread in terms of insight to what a (small) part of the current community thinks. I doubt you'll get a huge number of votes on the options because not many people read the forums and perhaps those who do won't tell us their opinion.

I'm sure you have your opinion of what should be prioritised in order to make the game better. Maybe it's not even in the options.

Catching up on a few more things, part three:

The arena however is a huge barrier for new managers. In practice you need to invest roughly 7 million to complete your arena with 20k seats.

Actually, a new manager who thinks he needs a 20,000 seat arena in Div V would have a problem. But in fact he doesn't need an arena that size now or maybe ever. The gradual increase of your arena as you move up through the ranks seems to work just fine as it is. Even the notion that it needs to be developed within a few seasons is false.

I have two guards I have had for over 600 days each that are rounding into really nice high TSP guards. They will cap out next season or so. The problem is, they will be 25 or 26. As training is currently constructed, you can't develop your team in house AND compete at a high level. By the time I develop a few more players, these two guards will be starting decline. So you are forced to fill out your roster on the TL.

Okay, you cannot develop an entire roster through in-house training. I have also seen it stated that you cannot develop an entire roster through the transfer list. The result: successful rosters are a mix of home-grown and pickups from the transfer list ... so where's the problem with that?

I don't need auto-bid and you don't need auto-bid - but just imagine that you lived in Japan/New Zealand and that would change your mind.

Coming back to the day trading - If you think that this is purely a basketball sim, than you are wrong. Similar games are always to very large extend economical games. You cannot win only by using magic tactics - you have to earn money to afford good players.

...There is no will and need to stop/eradicate/remove day trading - there was a need to decrease it's profitability - now it's less profitable and that's ok.

No matter where you live, there will be times that it is inconvenient to be there for the conclusion of an auction of a player that you would like to obtain off the transfer list. It happens to me and it happens to you. Autobid will not in any way alleviate that; you still cannot be assured of the winning bid without being there.

A basketball sim has a cornerstone financial element, true enough, and that is a plus. But that has nothing to do with day trading. I agree that decreasing its profitability is a first step in the right direction.

You should ask new managers if waiting 2 years (for training and arena) is a reasonable time.
How about making some kind of reasonable argument on why you think these are not improvements to the game, so that we can understand if there is some angle we haven't considered?
As you can see the majority of people thinks an app would be indeed beneficial to the game.

As a new manager (less than a year), yes, the arena development is on an entirely reasonable schedule, requiring a strategic use of your money balanced against the need for personnel and staff. I felt that way from the beginning and I see nothing to change my view on that.
The app does not change the game one speck, neither improving it nor damaging it. It is merely another point of access. If development of the game itself were lessened or delayed by the diversion of programming talent from the continuing development of the game, the game will not be all that it can be.