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Player exhaustion

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From: mink0ff
This Post:
88
313819.47 in reply to 313819.46
Date: 3/23/2022 3:08:58 PM
BC Vitosha Sofia
A Grupa
Overall Posts Rated:
821821
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Sofia Alpha Dogz
This implementation is a complete joke! 30pt 4-th quarter differences in very close B3 games... Well yeah, those players do get exhausted but they are not in wheelchairs...



Perfectly realistic. Way to go, Marin!

Last edited by mink0ff at 3/23/2022 3:40:30 PM

BBB: 2 (S37 S38); Top tier: 7 (S35 S36 S37 S38 S39 S41 S63); Cup: 9 (S25 S35 S36 S37 S38 S39 S40 S41 S61)
This Post:
44
313819.49 in reply to 313819.47
Date: 3/23/2022 4:56:12 PM
Venomous Vicious Vipers
Pro A
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930930
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Veni Vidi Vicious
Indeed there's something wrong with how much exhaustion impacts these games...

And I had another similar problem in mine (119393940).
Even though they all had subs, 4 of my starters didn't rest until the beginning of the 4th quarter, when they all got exhausted at the same time ! This resulted in my bench and reserve playing all together during many minutes while the game was still close.
And I guess I was lucky to have this reserve cause then maybe I would also have faced a -30pts in this 4th qt ?

It already made no sense that high stamina players didn't get subbed at all because of their stamina. But now it's even worse since they all get exhausted in the beginning of the 4th. And we've seen how huge the impact of exhaustion is.

Please let high stamina players have some rest in each qt. And maybe take a look at the exhaustion impact formula

Last edited by slamdunk9 at 3/23/2022 4:59:42 PM

This Post:
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313819.50 in reply to 313819.49
Date: 3/23/2022 5:47:18 PM
Wasted Potential
II.1
Overall Posts Rated:
458458
Second Team:
Hazards to Society
Please let high stamina players have some rest in each qt.


This is a must have if exhaustion continues. It will end up punishing teams with high stamina players even if they have backups/reserves. Others will face the same case as you were their players all get exhausted at the same time. As you mentioned it is dumb that coaches attempt to play starters 40+ minutes in many situations when this is obviously not optimal for game shape.

This Post:
11
313819.52 in reply to 313819.48
Date: 3/24/2022 2:32:17 AM
BC Vitosha Sofia
A Grupa
Overall Posts Rated:
821821
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Sofia Alpha Dogz
For me its good news for the implemmention, and for the fight against 5 man going for 48 minutes. Its not realistic either, you don't get to say the word only when its comfortable for you.
It is good news for the abstract idea that short rosters should not be viable, not for this particular implementation itself.

I support the idea and I too believe the end game scores are fine, mostly. I terribly dislike the implementation and those hilarious 4-th quarters, as thought the players were just switched off. There are way better ways to achieve the same (or better) end result here.


Last edited by GM-Perpete at 3/29/2022 5:57:12 AM

BBB: 2 (S37 S38); Top tier: 7 (S35 S36 S37 S38 S39 S41 S63); Cup: 9 (S25 S35 S36 S37 S38 S39 S40 S41 S61)
This Post:
00
313819.54 in reply to 313819.49
Date: 3/24/2022 3:01:16 AM
BC Vitosha Sofia
A Grupa
Overall Posts Rated:
821821
Second Team:
Sofia Alpha Dogz
It already made no sense that high stamina players didn't get subbed at all because of their stamina. But now it's even worse since they all get exhausted in the beginning of the 4th. And we've seen how huge the impact of exhaustion is.
This is the number one problem indeed.

A player does not get even a little tired for three quarters and all of a sudden he literally can't move his feet. Parody.

If this lousy implementation is to stay, there are at least three separate prerequisites:

1) Fix substitution patterns in order to have players at starter/backup/reserve compared on their actual efficiency atm.
2) Keep players on court even if they are exhausted in case they have no backup/reserve set.
3) Improve player performance under exhaustion. Right now it looks like after becoming exhausted (!suddenly!) they start being treated as lucky fans. Imo the exhaustion performance level should be based on player skills and not be less than 30% of the maximum values. I'd be happy to elaborate.

If this lousy implementation is to stay
Much better to get rid of it ofc and substitute it with faster and deeper stamina decay, especially at higher stamina levels, possibly accompanied by tiered GS decrease after psychologist based on minutes played in the b3/bbm game.

BBB: 2 (S37 S38); Top tier: 7 (S35 S36 S37 S38 S39 S41 S63); Cup: 9 (S25 S35 S36 S37 S38 S39 S40 S41 S61)
From: mink0ff

This Post:
00
313819.55 in reply to 313819.54
Date: 3/24/2022 3:13:12 AM
BC Vitosha Sofia
A Grupa
Overall Posts Rated:
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Second Team:
Sofia Alpha Dogz
Besides I'm pretty sure that a:

250k/250k/200k/200k/250k + 100k + 7k + 7k + 7k + 7k short roster

would still beat a:

150k/150k/150k/150k/150k + 125k + 100k + 78k + 100k + 125k roster

under this implementation.


Meaning that it does not actually work at all. It's just that people have not yet figured it out and found ways around it.


@Justin: I'd be happy if you ran some simulations on this and let us know what the results were.

BBB: 2 (S37 S38); Top tier: 7 (S35 S36 S37 S38 S39 S41 S63); Cup: 9 (S25 S35 S36 S37 S38 S39 S40 S41 S61)
From: kozlik4
This Post:
00
313819.57 in reply to 313819.55
Date: 3/24/2022 8:37:48 AM
KS Goldena
PLK
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40944094
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KS Golden Grizzlies
Have you took into consideration "keeping game in emotions until 4th quarter" effect, which exist especially in top games like PO, finals etc. I think it has bigger impact on course of most quoted games than exhaustion of players.

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