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I agree with you completely on the first two points, and partially on the third.

But I completely disagree with you here: All daytraders do is make sure that players do not sell for below their fair market value.

This point directly contradicts what you said here: No one person can say what the real market value of a player is

Essentially you are arguing that daytraders are the referees of the transfer market. It is, according to you, up to the daytraders to decide what constitutes fair market value. Not those people who would like to buy a player to improve their squad: it is up to those people with the most economic clout.

Lets say that there is a player on the TL. Two managers are looking at his player page: one is a new manager, in a low division, seeking a trainee. The other is a daytrader, an established club in a higher division, who sees this player as being 'undervalued'. You are arguing that the daytrader, who will almost certainly outbid the other manager, should be entitled do do so because he is rich and wants to become richer, unless the new manager is willing to overpay for the player.

Your words: A smart daytrader will stop bidding when s/he realizes that the player is at market value because there is no more money to be made off that player.

A daytrader will only not bid on a player if they cannot financially profit from the player. Never mind what the vast majority of non-daytraders feel, it's more important to protect the interests of a few selfish individuals who just want to make a bit of money without effort.

This game has an in-built economy, but it is not an economic simulator. It is a basketball game, and should be played as one.

because this is not an "economic game" where wins who is able to realize more profit

Sorry but that is not true! The hole Game based upon on money, money for trainer player, stadium... It is not a game which is like a Playstation where you play with an joystick! Without economy the game does not work - my opinion!

It is true that the game does not work without the economy, but that does not mean that the game should be about economics.

As an example a Ford Mustang has four wheels, but still it isn't a wheel, it is a car. So even though the wheels are needed to make the car work the car isn't a wheel nor should it be only about wheels.

I agree with you completely on the first two points, and partially on the third.

But I completely disagree with you here: All daytraders do is make sure that players do not sell for below their fair market value.

This point directly contradicts what you said here: No one person can say what the real market value of a player is

Essentially you are arguing that daytraders are the referees of the transfer market. It is, according to you, up to the daytraders to decide what constitutes fair market value. Not those people who would like to buy a player to improve their squad: it is up to those people with the most economic clout.

Lets say that there is a player on the TL. Two managers are looking at his player page: one is a new manager, in a low division, seeking a trainee. The other is a daytrader, an established club in a higher division, who sees this player as being 'undervalued'. You are arguing that the daytrader, who will almost certainly outbid the other manager, should be entitled do do so because he is rich and wants to become richer, unless the new manager is willing to overpay for the player.

Your words: A smart daytrader will stop bidding when s/he realizes that the player is at market value because there is no more money to be made off that player.

A daytrader will only not bid on a player if they cannot financially profit from the player. Never mind what the vast majority of non-daytraders feel, it's more important to protect the interests of a few selfish individuals who just want to make a bit of money without effort.

This game has an in-built economy, but it is not an economic simulator. It is a basketball game, and should be played as one.

Xlnt post.. Ive read it twice and now you can..

Essentially you are arguing that daytraders are the referees of the transfer market. It is, according to you, up to the daytraders to decide what constitutes fair market value.

I think there the point was not that daytraders decide market value, but rather that they recognize market value.

Daytrading is only profitable if you can get someone else to pay more than what you payed for the same product. A daytrader doesn't decide that a players market value should be higher than what is being offered, he/she recognizes throught time spent on the TL that someone would pay more for that player at a different time.

A daytrader doesn't decide that a players market value should be higher than what is being offered, he/she recognizes throught time spent on the TL that someone would pay more for that player at a different time.

You are agreeing with me: the daytrader is deciding what they think the market value should be and charging accordingly.

Daytraders prey on the inefficiencies of the market, buying players when there is a minimum of competition and selling when there is the maximum. If all users were able to list their players to sell at the peak times, daytrading would be limited. Instead, daytraders exploit this feature of the market.

do you think the guys trading the 500k plus players did this since day 1??

it is possible for anyone new to try and daytrade if this forms part of there long term strategy.....

but you have to build up a working capital in order to do this.... my roster has at times been down to 4-6 people and i have therefore not been optimizing my training..

i will go back to my original point... not all day traders make money and some will be stuck with too many overheads...

fair play to the managers that have made good profits from this technique..

its the same for managers training their players efficiently vs those that don't.

should they also be penalised for having great training regimes???

lets put is this way, if you're not a DT in this game, you're punished for having a LIFE(and not sitting all day next to the computer and do day trading...)

Yes, day-traders do exploit inefficiencies in the market but this is inevitable and not really wrong. Anybody who shops the TL and gets a good deal on a player is exploiting an inefficiency and profitting from it.

Let me say that I do think there need to be constraints on day-traders. It is my opinion that the game is too new and the market has not matured, which makes it extremely profittable for someone who as the time to exploit the market.

The point I wanted to make is that day-traders do not harm the market for other players, but rather make it more stable. The more people looking for players at all times will reduce the chance of a player getting sold at a discounted price because of the time he was listed.

That's a very good post yourself, and I think we've between us encapsulated the two sides of the argument.

The problem is exactly that of self-interest. It is in a daytrader's interests to make as much money as possible from the buying and selling of assets. It is in a non-traders interest to spend as little as possible assembling a team.

I'm certainly not advocating that the BBs institute a planned economy. I am advocating that the actions of daytraders are not in the best interests of the market in general. Daytrading does not add liquidity to the market. Daytrading does not increase the supply of players. Daytrading concentrates resources in the pockets of those who daytrade well.

It is true that being a good daytrader is difficult. Equally, it is true that buying a player for $1000, relisting him at $50,000 and then sacking him because he doesn't sell represents very little financial risk.

Then don't buy players from Day Traders........ Free Agents are hitting the market buy one of those guys......

lets put is this way, if you're not a DT in this game, you're punished for having a LIFE(and not sitting all day next to the computer and do day trading...)

Just like me?

I'm a pretty good team, and I don't see any daytrading.