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[NT] seizoen 11 / saison 11

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This Post:
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124816.49 in reply to 124816.48
Date: 2/4/2010 10:32:56 AM
Estrellas Absurdas
III.2
Overall Posts Rated:
4343
Second Team:
Almost Innocents
nice discussion...

and imo you're both correct...
I even wonder if you both had to go f.i. for a SG on the TL and you've had the choice between 3 SG...
you wouldn't both go for the same...

This Post:
00
124816.50 in reply to 124816.49
Date: 2/4/2010 2:35:38 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
9696
nice discussion...

and imo you're both correct...
I even wonder if you both had to go f.i. for a SG on the TL and you've had the choice between 3 SG...
you wouldn't both go for the same...

hehe, probably yes.
The diffrence is I would have gone for the same 3 seasons ago, and Revo would possibly have picked an other back then
;)

They are not your friends; they dispise you. I am the only one you can count on. Trust me.
From: dsaga
This Post:
00
124816.51 in reply to 124816.50
Date: 2/8/2010 5:16:33 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
11
Go Belgium!

This Post:
00
124816.52 in reply to 124816.17
Date: 2/9/2010 7:10:52 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
514514
Hi man... as I told you one month ago I'm not stupid :-)

Cyprus finished 5-2 as Belgium and Denmark... you should be a little bit disturbed by England that didn't crunch last match allowing Denmark an easy W.

Anyway my tactic was right... as someone said some posts before (I don't remember who) I can't decide points difference on other matches! I've done what I could do on my opinion with a 59th team ranking.

You faced 4 CT, but JoeMaverick is a really good coach (I appreciate him) and if England would play CT against Denmark you could be in...

My post is not "I'm cool, I'm right, I'm awesome" :-) it was just to point that I'm not stupid as you said on 29/12 and I think that I show that I'm not with results.

@JoeMaverick: you had a bad schedule, that's why it was so hard for you reach the second place... you were really near, but I don't know why... England decide to play CT against Germany and Belgium... and not against Denmark...
We will see on Consolation Tournament next season. Good Luck!

Last edited by Steve Makis™ at 2/9/2010 7:21:18 AM

This Post:
00
124816.53 in reply to 124816.52
Date: 2/9/2010 7:24:36 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
167167
i had this discussion with revo too.

even if we would have CTed the last game for the NT we would have lost by more than 6 or 8 points, whatever it was that Belgium needed. It is so easy to point fingers at England. Belgium didnt not qualify because we played with a very low enthusiasm in the last game, and because we did not CT, they did not qualify because they didnt score enough points themselves...

Why did we need to CT? To help Denmark and not help Belgium? I dont see a difference. We were out so why not try something new (not saying this was elboss idea, cause I dont know, but we didnt need to win).

It was logical we CTed vs Germany. at that point one more loss would have ment we were unable to qualify. So we needed to win, so we CTed.

I respect what Cyprus does with their NT and U21. A great example for many. But the ranking system is greatly flawed. We won 5 from the first 6 games and dropped 10 places. That isnt a good system, the wins most recently should decide rankings and not what happened 2 seasons before... Also you arent playing the same teams every season. I dont think it matters either who you beat, just win or loss is registered. a Ranking system like chess would be more suitable. In your case, your team is alot better than 57th and we all know that :)

Anyway enough said. I just wished people on these forums would point less fingers without having facts or ask first what the thoughts were/are behind certain decisions...

Last edited by Astragoth at 2/9/2010 7:26:00 AM

This Post:
00
124816.54 in reply to 124816.52
Date: 2/9/2010 9:10:49 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
9696
if I said you where stupid, I am sorry. I might have, but it was a bad choice of words. English is not my native language. If I used the word stupid I meant it in the way of making a mistake.
I don't think you are stupid. I think you made a mistake. And no matter your result, I still do think you made a mistake.

If you truely understand the effect of enthousiasm on games, and what it means for future games you will get what I mean. Until that time, it's pointless to discuss it. This does NOt mean you are stupid. Let that be clear.

England didn't have any reason for CT, so why would they tear their enthousiasm down? No I'm not distrubed in the least about them not CT-ing. When I said I hate it when other teams influence the standings of some, whitout getting better of it themselves, I also meant it when it would be positive, or negative for Belgium. I would hate it to qualify in someone else's stead if they where punched by some other team, just as much as when Belgium would not qualify when we get punched and some other team can qualify because of it...

No hard feelings or anything either. It's just the way things go.

What I do wonder however is, ... wouldn't you have qualified if you'd normalled against Belgium and won? Maybe you wouldn't win, but still I think you might have, ... I am prety confident your chances for qualification would be higher. So I still think, yes, you did make a mistake... Ofcourse you don't have to agree. It's just how I see it.

They are not your friends; they dispise you. I am the only one you can count on. Trust me.
This Post:
00
124816.55 in reply to 124816.54
Date: 2/9/2010 9:28:29 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
514514
No, I don't agree... i will explain my mistake in Cyprus forum, after the updating of our youth ranking to all cypriot community.

Anyway it's your way to think and I respect it.

Why, on my opinion, they should play CT:

a) they are out, so they can win one more match (for National Team ranking)

b) because they crunched against Belgium and to do a fair process tournament I will play CT as well against Denmark

c) enthusiasm when you are out of competition is no more important... for what? Scrimmages?

d) prove to his community that he could win another game

These are my reason for what I don't totally agree with Elboss and the reasons why I will be a little bit upset if I was Belgian... but I'm italian "working" for Cyprus and I've made other mistakes, but my starting position was really different from Belgium, England and Denmark.

It's my point of view, sure... I don't wanna kill Elboss or "point my finger", just to discuss about..

Just two other things:

if I said you where stupid, I am sorry. I might have, but it was a bad choice of words. English is not my native language. If I used the word stupid I meant it in the way of making a mistake.


Ok, I understand your reasons. Anyway English is not (obviously) my mother tongue as well :-)

If you truely understand the effect of enthousiasm on games...


That's why I act on this way this season :-) but I think that you don't know NT enthusiasm fluctuations if you haven't been NT coach

This Post:
00
124816.57 in reply to 124816.56
Date: 2/18/2010 11:36:51 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
471471
NT Recap: English version part 1


hi all,

for those of you who've been following the Belgian NT team, you knew that we were facing a nearly impossible task of winning against Germany in order to qualify for the second round of the European championship. But before we get to our match against Germany, there will be a summary of the road that the Belgian NT followed leading up to this game. this is to let the others know who joined up recently and for those who haven't been able to see what the NT did up untill now.

anyhow, our pool consisted of the following 8 countries with their ranking at the start of this season: Germany (9), Belgium (10), Danmark (33), England (38), Georgia (57), Cyprus (59), Albania (72), Ireland (75).

At first glance, we thought there was a possibility to get the second place because England and Danmark, our two biggest opponents for the second place (Germany was too strong), were stronger but defeatable. With a good managing, the qualification was possible.

However, in our first game against Cyprus, we ended up suffering a major loss. We never expected Cyprus to go Crunch Time, and we were taken by surprize. We suffered almost a 30 point loss, and that would be very difficult to overcome. Nevertheless, we worked even harder after the loss to get back some points. The result was that we won our games against Georgia, Ireland and Albania. Even though we would won against these 3 opponents, we weren't really satisfied with the results of the game against Ireland and Albania, since we had expected to have bigger wins ( if we only ad scored 22 points more, then we'd have been second instead of 3rd....)

At this point, Germany and Danmark both had won 4 games. Belgium was ranked 3rd behind them, with 3 wins and one loss. Cyprus and England (who had suffered a loss against Cyprus aswell and had lost by a narrow margin to Sakartvelo) were 4th and 5th. Everyone knew that the decision on who would get the second position, would be decided by the scores of the 3 remaining matches...
the first game against Danmark ended in a 93-81 victory for the Belgian NT. Meanwhile, England nearly defeated Germany, playing crunch against TIE, but the game ended in a 100-103 victory for Germany. England at this point had suffered 3 losses, and so we lose a rival in the race for the second position in our pool.


This Post:
00
124816.58 in reply to 124816.57
Date: 2/18/2010 11:37:17 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
471471
NT Recap: English version part 2


Then we played England, while Germany played Danmark. Danmark was cruched by Germany, and we defeated England by 119 - 107.
At this point, Germany was ranked first, and would take the first spot for sure. We were ranked 2nd, with 18 points advantage on Danmark. Now there were two possible scenario. The first one was a loss for Belgium, and a win for Danmark. However, for Danmark to end second, they'd need to erase a 18 point difference with Belgium. And the 2rd, most unlikely scenario was that if Belgium would defeat Germany, then Belgium would cease the second position automatically.

Unfortunately, it ended up being the first scenario. The English NT decided to go easy on the Danish NT, which meant that the only way for qualification would be by winning our game against Germany. Unfortunately, we suffered a 12 point loss ( 115-103 for Germany). since the Danish NT was very happy to see the English help, we ended up 3rd in a heavely contested poule, missing the second spot by 22 points less in the goal difference.

We've experienced what it means to be seen as the team to beat. no less than 4 teams decided to go crunch against us (Cyprus, Danmark, England and the most unlikely, Albania), hoping to cease a victory. One of them was succesfull (Cyprus). Nevertheless, looking back at the qualifying round, we regret the fact that we couldn't make it to the next stage. However, we only missed it by a small miserable 22 points. Unlike last season, we weren't underestimated... yet we managed to get rather far with our small NT team.

The whole NT team would like to thank every coach who has helped the Belgian NT, were it by limitting the number of minutes on their player, thus sacrificing a win for the better gameshape of their player, or by training the players that aren't in the NT team, but who are being monitored by the NT staff. Our Coach Joe has suprized everyone once again, by taking this team so far. Unfortunately, we came up short this time. But if everyone trains their players, then I am rather sure that Joe or whoever his succesor will be, could lead this team to the next lvl. towards the european championship, and who knows what might happen at that level...

So for everyone who helped out in whatever way it may be, the Belgian NT would like to thank you for your efforts. We hope to see you work as hard as this season (if not harder), and we'll try to work even harder in season 12 than we did in season 11 to bring the Belgian NT to the top.

Revo

This Post:
00
124816.59 in reply to 124816.58
Date: 2/18/2010 11:39:15 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
471471
NT recap: Nederlandse Versie, deel 1:

Beste coaches,

voor zij die het parcours van het Belgische NT (nationale team) hebben gevolgd, wisten al dat we afgelopen maandag een quasi onmogelijke taak tot een goede einde te brengen: we moesten winnen van het ongenaakbare Duitsland om de 2e plaats veilig te stellen en ons daardoor te verzekeren van deelneming aan het Europees Kampioenschap. Maar alvorens onze match tegen Duitsland te bespreken, zullen we eerst nog even de weg die het Belgische NT heeft afgelegd overlopen. zo kunnen ook de nieuwe managers in Belgie volgen wat er met hun NT gebeurt, en kunnen de andere coaches, die niet veel tijd hebben gehad om alles te kunnen volgen, ook weer up to date geraken.

Onze pool bestond uit de volgende 8 landen (met hun wereldranking tussen haakjes na hun naam): Duitsland (9), Belgie (10), Denemarken (33), Engeland (38), Georgië (57, Cyprus (59), Albanië (72) en Ierland (75)

Op het eerste zicht dachten we dat we mogelijks die 2e plaats zouden kunnen bemachtigen. Het was overduidelijk dat de eerste plaats naar Duitsland ging gaan, aangezien dat ze over een geweldig spelerskern beschikten en overduidelijk veel te sterk waren. Echter, de beslag leggen op de 2e plek leek ons geen onmogelijke taak, gezien onze 2 voornaamste tegenstander, Engeland en Denemarken, allebei sterker waren, maar niet onklopbaar. Met goed management (en een goed beheer van ons enthousiasme) zou een 2e plaats in deze poule en daarmee een kwalificatie geen onrealistisch doel zijn.

Echter, we hebben een zware nederlaag ( van ongeveer 30 punten ) geleden bij het begin van onze kwalificatie campagne. Onze eerst tegenstander, Cyprus, heeft ons allen verrast door een CT tegen ons uit te spelen. Die nederlaag van 30 punten zou moeilijk weg te werken zijn. Desondanks zijn we harder dan ooit tevoren gaan werken. De vruchten hiervan hebben we geplukt in onze matchen tegen Georgië, Ierland en Albanië. Hoewel we deze matchen wonnen, waren we niet echt tevreden met de resultaten tegen Ierland en Albanië, omdat we winsten met een groter verschil in punten hadden verwacht ( om wat punten goed te maken op het verlies tegen Cyprus). Hadden we nu in deze match maar 22 punten meer gescoord, dan zouden we op het einde 2e ipv 3e zijn geweest...

Op dat moment ( dat we 4 matchen hadden afgewerkt) hadden zowel Duitsland als Denemarken 4 matchen gewonnen, België zat hen op de hielen met 3 gewonnen matchen en 1 verloren. Cyprus en Engeland ( die van zowel Cyprus als Albanië nipt hadden verloren) hadden 2 matchen gewonnen en 2 matchen verloren, wat hen respectievelijk 4e en 5e plaats opleverde. Iedereen die de NT wedstrijden volgde, wist dat de uiteindelijke beslissing over wie de kwalificatie zou afdwingen, ging vallen bij de matchen tussen de 'groten' (Duitsland, België, Denemarken en Engeland). Alles was nog mogelijk...

De eerst match tegen Denemarken ( die we moesten winnen wilden we dat Denemarken zich niet verzekerde van de kwalificatie) eindigde in een 93-81overwinning voor het Belgische NT. Engeland verloor hun match tegen Duitsland ( zij het maar met 3 punten) maar was CT ( Crunch Time = Alles of Niets) gegaan tegen Duitsland, en had hierdoor een 3e nederlaag opgelopen, waardoor het onmogelijk werd voor hen zich te kwalificeren voor het Europees Kampioenschap.

Hierna speelden we tegen Engeland, terwijl Denemarken het opnam tegen Duitsland. Denemarken werd door Duitsland volledig verpletterd, en wij wonnen onze match tegen Engeland met 119 - 107. Nu zijn we op het punt gekomen dat we alles nog mogelijk was. Duitsland was als eerste gerangschikt, en had zichzelf verzekerd van de eerste plaats. Wij stonden 2, met 1 game voorsprong op Denemarken en 18 punten meer in gescoorde punten vs tegen gekregen punten. Er waren verschillende mogelijkheden, maar we zullen het beperken tot de 2 meest realistische.

vervolg post 2

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