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The elastic effect

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158094.49 in reply to 158094.41
Date: 9/29/2010 12:22:37 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
3434
Basically, what I want to say is that, an 18 year old and a 21 year old player can train passing almost at the same pace and that just doesn't happen with pressure training!


The problem with using short timespan's and small sample sizes as evidence is the unknown that sublevels introduces. To be able to limit that I think you would need a longer time frame and a larger number of samples.

Because we can't see sublevels, it's impossible to use these small sample sizes that are being listed as justification of your theory. You would need hundreds of players in each age bracket, and preferrably at least 5 or 6 weeks straight of training a skill to get a better idea on the slow down from age.

On a side note, some more data that you can file away with your passing training: I trained an 18 year old (6'8"), 20 year old (6'5") and 21 year old (6'1") in passing 3 straight weeks and the 18 year old popped 3 times while the 20 and the 21 year old both popped twice.

EDIT: added players heights

Last edited by Harper at 9/29/2010 12:24:17 PM

This Post:
00
158094.50 in reply to 158094.46
Date: 9/29/2010 12:34:39 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
404404
Well that was about making point, not about description. DV isnt usually well trained on bigmens,thats why I think its underrated . If you will figure out elastic effect, could be overrated (while still Im not sure about big men).

Because you have to train them out of position,it's a different problem

Last edited by Steve Karenn at 9/29/2010 12:35:01 PM

This Post:
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158094.51 in reply to 158094.50
Date: 9/29/2010 12:39:02 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
204204
at least for PFs, you don't have to. There's one-on-one training for forwards available - and giving a Center some minutes at PF isn't that much out of position - rather like SG and PG.

This Post:
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158094.52 in reply to 158094.48
Date: 9/29/2010 12:54:00 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
4545
That is true.. and I don't have a proper sample to show you that OD slows down with age.
But if we take into consideration this topic... can you tell us if your 22yo player had Handling really high compared to defense?

@Harper

On a side note, some more data that you can file away with your passing training: I trained an 18 year old (6'8"), 20 year old (6'5") and 21 year old (6'1") in passing 3 straight weeks and the 18 year old popped 3 times while the 20 and the 21 year old both popped twice.


Interesting that you're 18 year old poped 3 times in a row.. I have never seen that! The other ones does not surprise me at all!

Can you tell us if his passing was really low compared to Handling and Driving? Maybe we can take something from the current topic of the thread!

This Post:
00
158094.53 in reply to 158094.51
Date: 9/29/2010 2:28:10 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
404404
at least for PFs, you don't have to. There's one-on-one training for forwards available - and giving a Center some minutes at PF isn't that much out of position - rather like SG and PG.

But someone had to start at C position,and there will be game shape problems because a player should play all 48 minutes in a game,and should start at C in an another game while an other big main is playing in the PF position to take the training

Last edited by Steve Karenn at 9/29/2010 2:28:59 PM

This Post:
00
158094.54 in reply to 158094.53
Date: 9/29/2010 3:47:44 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
986986
But someone had to start at C position,and there will be game shape problems because a player should play all 48 minutes in a game,and should start at C in an another game while an other big main is playing in the PF position to take the training


Same problem in every training if you have only minimum number of players. I think question was not to optimize gameshape, question was that C can play as PF without loosing all existing skills. If you train passing for C that is much more challenging, I think.


This Post:
00
158094.55 in reply to 158094.52
Date: 9/29/2010 5:43:50 PM
Infested Warriors
II.2
Overall Posts Rated:
775775
That is true.. and I don't have a proper sample to show you that OD slows down with age.
But if we take into consideration this topic... can you tell us if your 22yo player had Handling really high compared to defense?

@Harper

On a side note, some more data that you can file away with your passing training: I trained an 18 year old (6'8"), 20 year old (6'5") and 21 year old (6'1") in passing 3 straight weeks and the 18 year old popped 3 times while the 20 and the 21 year old both popped twice.


Interesting that you're 18 year old poped 3 times in a row.. I have never seen that! The other ones does not surprise me at all!

Can you tell us if his passing was really low compared to Handling and Driving? Maybe we can take something from the current topic of the thread!



My experience, in this seasson I´ve trained for 6 weeks OD one position, 4 weeks Passing one position and 2 weeks 1 vs 1 SG/SF, lvl 5 trainer and always 48+ min. on my trainers. My rookie(18 yo and 6'1'') at the beginning of the season:

6-6
4-7
2-4
6-6
6-7

6 weeks OD(Don´t remember the exact order of pops):

6-6
8-8
2-4
6-6
6-7

6 weeks Passing(3 passing pops in a row then nothing)

6-6
8-8
3-7
6-6
6-7

2 Weeks 1 vs 1 (Only first week pops)

6-6
8-9
4-7
6-6
6-7

Hope this is useful, maybe all the pops are more related to the height that the elastic effect. I think DR are in a high sublevel.

From: CrazyEye

To: red
This Post:
11
158094.57 in reply to 158094.56
Date: 9/29/2010 6:26:11 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
959959
assuming the height factor is constant like inn your example, even this is equal ;)

From: CrazyEye

To: red
This Post:
00
158094.59 in reply to 158094.58
Date: 9/30/2010 3:19:43 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
959959
Well, its not constant though, depending on what skills you train. Sure height factor is probably constant when comparing training outside defense to training 1v1, but when comparing training OD to training ID, the height factor isnt constant. Thus, generally speaking, I think the order you train relative to how long it trains only really matters on players getting trained inside and outside, and doing the opposite of your players height first (inside if short, outside if tall) will probably lead to faster training when its all said and done.


no, i am telling you, when training takes 10% longer when you are 18, and ten percent longer when you are 29 there is no difference if you train it first or late(depending you have a training plan till his 29 birthday) in training speed.

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