BuzzerBeater Forums

I've read this all the way through and would like to address a couple of points raised elsewhere.

1) In my only league loss this season, I did TIE but with fairly high Enthusiasm going in. In the closing minutes, my team started to take 3's and not make them. We did, however, grab the rebounds and stick the shots back in and make defensive stops so that we finally took the lead with 4 seconds to play. This is how I expect my team to play. I would vastly prefer to continue to pound the ball the inside rather than heave up unanswered prayers from distance.

2) With 4 seconds to go, the other team called a TO and made changes. They then went to the player guarded by my worst defender, as you explained the code called for. I think that's fine. However, if the game logic brings in shooters, you should also have logic that brings in my best defenders. With only four seconds to go, my team was never going to shoot the ball. Needless to say, they hit a buzzerbeater and I lost by one.

Hi Charles,

Just want to also speak up for the 'satisfied' managers, who may not be posting because they're happy with the effect of the mid-season changes. My team is definitely "balanced" - I took a decision at the start of the season to test out the commonly presented theory that it's better to only train a couple of positions, not the whole team. So almost all my team are young, improving players, and I've been training the whole team, firstly in jump shots and more recently 1v2 for driving.

I have tried to buy players who have balanced skills, and look for good defensive as well as attacking players in all positions.

Since the All Star Week my team has been posting better performances, and now sits mid-table in the top English league, having started badly, losing twelve of my first fourteen matches, including friendly and cup games. I feel that my balanced team, and balanced training programme is being rewarded, and I'm very pleased.

Also just wanted to say how helpful I found your comments earlier in this thread.

..and here is another "balanced" manager who thinks the game engine changes works well. A team full of steroid ISID/RB 19 year olds will never win over a balanced team with guards that can carry the ball, pass and defend outside/in.. I would be disappointed if the BB GE strived to act in such a way and it probably wouldnt be as fun to play this game.

Im sure the BB's (and GM's) already know that "reality of something" isnt 50 "outraged" people with similar "problems" making a thread in the forums.

..the inside/outside "salary complaints" never made sense to me either. The profile of a good outside player has more skills to it.. I, of course, dont have access to data but glancing the TL now and then clearly says to me that there arent outside players with the same kind of "broilerish" salaryboosting look.

What it says in the rules and sticky threads combined with what they dont say speaks alot..

-P

There indeed seems more at hand than just bringing in the best 3-point shooters at the end of a close game.

seeing my game last night I definatly found the worst free trow shooter to foul in my opponent's team, the poor guy shot 1 for 25 from the line. But I also missed a lot of 3-point shots, and it seems that with 2 point shots I might have won easely... but then probably my opponent would start fouling my worst free trow shooter, and we'd get a very weird scenario. In the end I forced an overtime, where if my opponent would have put in his best free-trow shooters, I'd lose easely.
I say this because when you bring in the best 3-point shooters for the team that needs to catch up, you also need to bring in the 5 best free trow shooters for the team that is ahead, but then you also need to bring in the 5 best outside defenders for that team to prevent the 3-pointers.... Also you need the 5 best rebounders on both sides to grab that rebound after the fouled player missed his second free trow,... and so on and on... it's not as easy as it seems to put the right guys on the field.

Except...the team ratings do go slightly upward when you CT and slightly downward when you TiE. The reason for this seems to be that you're more likely to get lucky with, for example, your better players not getting into foul trouble, so they can stay on the court longer, or similarly being ahead, so that you tend to play your starters at the end of the game instead of playing weaker overall players with specific skills. Remember that these team ratings are only a reflection of who is on the court at what time, and that if a game is run many times, the team ratings will be different each time (although obviously pretty tightly clustered).

That's very interesting! It looks like this is an unintended effect of the new enthusiasm system, in which case congratulations on your emergent properties!

Thanks for the answer, I appreciate the effort you've put in.

Although I am supporting very much this game and how it has been designed, and I appreciate very much the efforts to improve it. I have to say that introducing this random effect in the CT/TIE is a mistake.

First because it does not make sense from the point of view of real basket: Playing more motivated will not make the ball go inside because you are more lucky.
Second, it gives a wild card to some managers that don´t deserve it. A desperate manager playing CT with nothing to loose, can eliminate a good manager who is taking the right decision: saving enthusiasm for harder matches.

But second, there are some mistakes in the implementation of this feature:

-The effect of CT should not be independent of the enthusiasm. Lower enthusiasm should lead to lower CT effect. A team with low enthusiasm can continuosly play CT succesfully, losing nothing and always getting the same effect. Of course this is not a good strategy to win the league, but it can help teams to avoid relegation, and this starts a chain reaction...

- The effect of CT and enthusiasm should be of the same nature, so a good enthusiasm should be able to equilibrate at the same level the effect of CT. A good manager should be able to develop a strategy to avoid surprises in the first play-off match.

A bad manager should not be able to benefit of a powerful tool for free. And on-line games always suffers of bad managers (maybe too clever) who take all possible advantages to the limit and of course far from the original sport. After some time we can probably see teams specialized in playing continuosly CT and winning matches just because the other team best players are fouled out too soon. The logic answer would be playing with reserves at the beginning and things like this, far away from real basket.

Last edited by Emilio at 4/16/2008 7:46:45 PM

BB-Charles:

Now, TiE/CT means that your team is simply getting luckier / winning the close decisions.

- This is what I meant when I said "random effect". To me, random and lucky have some kind of conceptual relationship.

BB-Charles:

In the past, TiE/CT affected the skills of the players (rebounding and defense mainly), and therefore it would also be visible in the team ratings.

- You are talking about the old CT/TIE system. Now this has changed. I agree with you, playing harder should affect to rebounding and defense, but this is not what is happening now.

BB-Forrest:

well.. after 2/3 CT your enthusiasm is low, and that's why you should have a hard time winning. The "effect" of CTing isn't any different though.

- It is strange that you did not read this, because you also posted in this thread: (23340.20)

All in all, I don´t know from where are you taking your information. I just try to help by posting my feelings about the new engine. I would be grateful if answers come also with some fresh and contrasted information.



Last edited by Emilio at 4/17/2008 5:09:05 AM

If what you say is true, could you help me understand the ratings in these two games:

(2078154)
(2412582)

They were played one on friday, in private league (the first one), after the training and form updates, and one the very next day. The first one is Normal, the second one is TIE.

Now, the form of all players is the same in the two games, the tactics are the same (both offensive and defensive), and the minutes are all very very similar (I think there is a maximum variation of 6 minutes for each player from one game to the next).

As you can see the ratings for both offenses are almost identical (only one sub-level difference), perimeter defense is identical, and ball movement is also almost identical (one sub-level difference). What changes dramatically are rebounding and interior defense. There is en entire level difference between the two games. If not for the TIE having a direct effect on those two ratings, how can that difference be explained?

I mentioned those two games because, having nearly identical conditions, they are particularly significant IMO, but there are also other examples I can think of.
(For example, I registered my highest ever Interior defense rating in a game where I was playing away from home, using a Normal defense (I usually play a 2-3), and with my best interior defender out with injury. But I CTed that game.)