BuzzerBeater Forums

I'm going to have to call BS on you too:)

So you were a team that has played the finals and won the tournament from season 3. Perhaps the 22-0 record and a championship in S12 drained your coffers. You still could take the cup next season. So you kind of semitanked S14 and tanked S15 and dropped out.

Let's count now. It took you 5 seasons to tank and get back to divI. That's 1.25 years in RL. You got back, got to 5-th record in your league. This season 12-th spot. It's not like you are making a super arena income. A crunch with only a few backups by black mumba would have taken you to relegation games (or your last game loss) and you would be playing those if you were on the red side.

So can we say you are not trying? Your team salary is not low by your league standards. Let's look at your transfers for your 2 last seasons (divI). Player bought/sold differential - 15 players total, profit with 2 players. Total -4926300 (raw value, no taxes included). Overall transfer balance -9342100 for players involved in 2 seasons (bought or sold after start of season).

Conclusion = Although you might feel great and you might have some money lieing around. BB is a game where results matter. You can state anything in the forums, some of it might be true some might not be (you have different goals, you could win if you wanted yadayadayada). The only fact I can read out of this is: you went from a seasonal finals/championship team to a "I have NT players" team.

Good example. I have a question, about this. He brings in roughly $500k in gate. His salaries are $1.4 million. Let's say staff cost him $50k. That leaves him $950k to make up in merch and tv. What is Serie A tv? What sort of merch does he pull? How long is his method sustainable? 2 seasons? 3 seasons? So he does great for three seasons and then tanks again and is down for how many seasons? Looking at his history, he started in d.v and worked his way up, occasionally relegating. It seems like he has done a great job managing and he is now peaking. When his run ends, he will go back to d.ii or iii and begin to rebuild. I don't see this as a problem. If he is allowing walkovers then I am against it, but otherwise I think he has done a good job with his team.

I would guess, based on my two previous experiences, that merch in serie A is around 230k (ish), and mech should be somewhere around 100k-150k (ish).

Re: the bolded part, I think it depends on your definition of a good job.

If you mean that he is taking advantage of the economic deficiencies of the game, and in doing so he is maximizing the potential of his team, then yeah, he is doing a fantastic job.

However, he is making the experience essentially miserable for everybody he is competing against, since (especially in lower divisions) he has almost consistently either had a non-competitive team (messing up the playout race) or a team with a monstrous salary cap (making the race for the promotion a non-race).

Look at his run since he tanked in Division II in Season 11:
- 8-14 in season 12, in which he tanked all away games in the first half of the season (and thus continued to rack up money)
- 16-6 in season 13 (normal season apparently)
- 20-2 regular season in season 14, loss in game 3 of the finals
- 22-0 regular season in season 15, and promotion to Division II
- 18-4 regular season and promotion to Serie A in season 16(double promotion in Italy from III to Serie A is almost impossible nowadays)
- 4-18 tanking in season 17 in Serie A (all wins against other tanking teams)
- 19-3 regular season in season 18 and new promotion in Serie A (with a 30 point win average in the playoffs)
- 14-8 in his first year in Serie A in season 19 (which is definitely extremely difficult to achieve)
- currently best record in Serie A and home field advantage in the finals

Without a doubt a fantastic run, but which has been evidently been fueled by all the money he racked up in his tanking seasons.

I don't know the specifics and I believe you when you sketch his history. Are his tanking seasons filled with walkovers? That's what I find most reprehensible. If he tanked all away games then his fan survey would be lame and he would have lower income from his home games.

The only fact I can read out of this is: you went from a seasonal finals/championship team to a "I have NT players" team, plus all the money my entire team was worth when I sold them to start tanking

Fixed. Plus, that money is worth a lot more in today's economy after 7 seasons of deflation. I can't make you respect the value of tanking to my team. If I would have added one cheap high salaried big for the cup in season 18 final, and one for the stretch run of the league and cup in season 19, i could have 3 more trophies. But, like SpicyMcHaggis said:

However, he is making the experience essentially miserable for everybody he is competing against

(46471)

Tanked at least two whole seasons, one in Division I 2 or 3 seasons ago and one in Division II a while ago, and is now back playing for the italian championship, having won Division II and having played Division I both with monstrous payrolls.

Yay for more evidence!

I don't think Samantha Basket is a very good example of tanking, with season 11 being their only real tanking season.

Season 11: 0-22, Tanks one season, begins rebuilding, demotes to D.III. Before this it was a steady climb from the bottom
Season 12: 8-14 record, threw a couple away games, nowhere near real tanking. Saved some money in D.III for one season.
Season 13: 16-6, obviously not tanking.
Season 14: 20-2, hmm, seems to be a pattern of improvement here.
Season 15: 22-0, promotes to D.II, seems be steadily improving.
Season 16: 18-4, promotes again.
Season 17: 4-18, realizing he's out of his depth after going from III to I, which you yourself said is unlikely he decides to go back to D.II.
Season 18: 19-3, Promotes back to D.I.
Season 20: 17-5, Doing well in D.I.


Note, this team caused no walkovers in seasons 11 or 17 his two tanking seasons. (or even season 12)

So so far for examples I've seen: A) A six season rebuilding plan that leaves you with more money, national pride, but less talent overall B) A three season plan to move from #3 to #1 in D.II and C) 9 seasons from the bottom of D.II to the top of D.I.

None of these scream to me "OMG tanking needs to be nerfed". They show me that tanking, if done right, can work out ok, but so can many other strategies as well.

The only things I currently support that I've seen in this thread are: increased penalties for walkovers, and decreasing rewards for 5th place.

Tanking is and should continue to be a viable option for good managers to take.

I don't think you're looking at all the examples...

Confirmation Bias....?

(http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&es...)

Brian could buy championships but he won't

I should note that I'm aware of at least one other team in the NBBA that has a large cash reserve, so technically I could end up in a spending war with them. Either way, would suck for the rest of the competition.

Last edited by brian at 8/13/2012 8:27:46 AM

The only fact I can read out of this is: you went from a seasonal finals/championship team to a "I have NT players" team, plus all the money my entire team was worth when I sold them to start tanking

Fixed. Plus, that money is worth a lot more in today's economy after 7 seasons of deflation. I can't make you respect the value of tanking to my team. If I would have added one cheap high salaried big for the cup in season 18 final, and one for the stretch run of the league and cup in season 19, i could have 3 more trophies. But, like SpicyMcHaggis said:

However, he is making the experience essentially miserable for everybody he is competing against

That's my main point. I agree that giving walkover ruins the fun for the other teams, but so does playing in a division in which you know that under no circumstances will you have a shot at promoting.

Well of course I have confirmation bias, I'm trying to prove my point :P

Anways ideas I support:
-Raising of the salary floor(maybe 1.5 of current)
-Punishment of some sort for walkovers/repeated walkovers
-reducing rewards for 5th(maybe just make them pay 1 week of salaries?)