BuzzerBeater Forums

Without trying to flame anyone or discredit anyones opinion, I have another view on this matter...

Decent age and brilliant skills to start with, but at best this player should only be trained with a player with a higher potential rating with the intent of selling in a season or 2 for profit. If this player had an allstar potential rating or higher his height and skills are perfect for a SF, but to train inside and outside skills he would cap before you could get anything special out of him. Now this is why I believe it is in your best interests not to train this player...

He would make a decent guard but if you look at your line up already, Dean Ellsworth and Tapasya Singh would make much better candidates for training. Single position training is the best way to train players and you can only train 2 players effectively every week. Plus to turn him into a SF, the best way to do that is to take 1 of those players out, train for a season in outside skills, then buy a tall and train a season in inside stuff. And if you were that way inclined you already have a player like Douglas Bradwell with the potential to make a champion in that position.

90% of lower division teams would be able to make value of this player effectively. Unfortunately for you (and this isn't a bad thing), you have enough talent in the positions where this player would be of benefit.

I disagree that he would cap before he becomes a decent player. The following player has been trained in 2pos, 3pos, and team training for the majority of his career and his salary is within the cap for the player in question's potential.

Jump Shot: prolific Jump Range: proficient
Outside Def.: prominent Handling: prominent
Driving: strong Passing: respectable
Inside Shot: proficient Inside Def.: prominent
Rebounding: prolific ↑ Shot Blocking: respectable
salary: 36k

He can play sg-sf-pf . At 25 years old he is still training and still popping (as you can see). I see no reason why your player can't get to the same level as this guy. Good luck!


Last edited by somdetsfinest at 5/12/2010 2:47:02 AM

Is his name 'Mr. Versatile' ? :D (just couldnt see him on your roster!)

How long are you finding it takes now between pops? (assuming 2 position)...

This is a great example of what can be achieved (and if as he is for the original poster your top trainee then you can achieve this much quicker than age 25) - you also have to question why we dont see many players like this on the transfer market?

So many noob threads and questions with good responses yet it would seem that managers still go off and train differently where as if you could build 3 or better still 6 of these trainees over 4/5 seasons imagine what your team and future possibilities would be?!

Last edited by Superfly Guy at 5/12/2010 12:37:58 AM

I can only find 1 player (Joan Carles Castañé) who fits the player you described and his potential is MVP? How long roughly does it take to get pops from Ragnar Mårtensson (same age, same position, starter potential) if trained in the same position? If JCC with MVP potential has trained single position all his career, do you believe he would still be under $100k salary and not worth millions more?

The player this thread refers to has 3 trainees with much greater potential, so should he sacrifice their ability to become great players who would have much more impact whether he keeps them or sells them in the future, just to salvage something from a situation caused by an impulse decision that doesn't suit his team? This thread started because someone wanted to know whether the player they bought was good value. He will lose value on 3 others trying to get value out of the player in question.

Last edited by Pablo Ignatio Montoya at 5/12/2010 1:21:08 AM

I don't believe that a player's potential makes any difference at all as to how fast a player trains. Perhaps if I had trained my player differently he would be worth more money, but I have my doubts that my team would be better than it is now. I didn't train Martensson so I don't know how long he took to pop, which is why I didn't use him as an example. He is also a very good player, similar to the one I posted but not quite as rounded in the big man skills, and he has received no training this season, except for two team passing sessions and a game shape.
I don't know where you read that the OP bought his player on an impulse or that he does not suit his team. It all depends on how you want to train and what you are trying to achieve. My whole plan and operation is very different from the majority of managers. I was just trying to point out that the guy could become a very very good player for his team while staying inside salary constraints.

SFG: He has been popping a lot lately because finally, after 9 seasons I have decided to give him some single position training. He must have been close in a lot of areas because in the last month he has popped in ID, REB, HAND, and SB. I am guessing this will be his last season as a trainee, so I am going to try and get him a few more guard skills before the end of the season.

The reason he is best off single training is because his team has no standout players. He has a good average balance within his team, but needs to build some key position players for the next level. In your situation where you are one of the strongest in your country, maintaining allround strength is the main objective. In this situation it is about gaining a strength as fast as possible. By single position training his 2 SGs he has the ability to create a lot of value in both trainees. Selling the one least valuable to the team is likely to pay for a mature C/PF giving his team a strength until the SG catches up. An example of what single training can do for value. I bought this player on the 29th of march for $318500 as a SF prospect to train in outside skills until my SG caps...

Laurent Roche (13376050)
Point Guard
Weekly salary: $ 4 149
Age: 19
Height: 6'7" / 201 cm
Potential: hall of famer

Jump Shot: average Jump Range: average ↑
Outside Def.: average Handling: respectable
Driving: respectable Passing: respectable
Inside Shot: mediocre Inside Def.: average
Rebounding: awful Shot Blocking: inept
Stamina: respectable Free Throw: atrocious

In less than 2 months his transfer estimate is now between $1000000 and $2500000. Not possible if he wasn't single position trained and has the potential rating to become a bigtime player. I could train him until the end of the season and buy a capped SF with a star rating if I wanted! Both players skills are fairly close, but I can almost guarantee he didn't pay anywhere near $1 million for his player where he can get very close to that for a couple of the players he has if single position trained. Also the reason your player is popping so much is beacuse of the rate increased rate that single position trains. Double pops are quite common for me.

I said he made the purchase on impulse because he has several better options already on his list and will only waste value in them by training him or in multi position training. I speak as someone who had to (and still has to) play catch up after starting late, and an allround top team is easier to achieve by building a player in one position and selling progressing back up trainees to gain better players in other positions. A lot has happened in BB since your team started and teams like yourself have had a lot longer to build. It's like you said, " My whole plan and operation is very different from the majority of managers". Mine is similar to his and was identical 2 seasons ago.

That's all well and good, but his question was not about how to improve his team. His question was... Let me see if I can find it... How good is this guy?
So I answered his question. The answer is, he could be a very good player with a very low salary, if you train him. I would not presume to tell someone the "right" way to play the game, except that the right way is to have fun.

By the way, the reason my player is popped in SB and ID was single position training. The reason he popped in HAN and REB is, for obvious reasons, not. My goal has ALWAYS been to build a well-rounded squad, since day 1. I have almost never trained players to be resold. I am lucky to be in a small country, yes, but my team is not good just because of that. The highest skill of any player on my team is marvelous, and that happened in week 5 of this season (although I did used to have a couple prodigious rebounders). You do not need to have MVPs and HOFers to have a good team. Maybe I cannot (Strike the maybe) win the B3 but my team is competitive with many top teams while carrying a payroll of 536k. Passing, rebounding, handling, and defense go a long way in this game. just as they do in real life.

So while your method is to train one or two players to be very good and then sell them at the whim of the TL, my method is to train my entire team (or at least 5 or 6 guys at a time) to be competent and be able to have a steady value on the TL because of the uniqueness of their skills. And, like I said, it still is. I have been training JCC single position because I feel this is his last year to train and he is by far my favorite player, so I am spoiling him a bit. His TPE is only 1.6million. To you he has been a waste of time and value, but to me he has been an incredible player who has helped me win several titles while allowing me to save a lot of money because of his low salary which I then put into buying better players also with relatively low salaries.

Last edited by somdetsfinest at 5/12/2010 4:51:59 AM

thanks for that - I agree that Ellsworth is head and shoulders above this guy and he is my star trainee I suppose what I am looking at is - is it better to drop a trainee who is 21 (Singh who has decent skills already but will start to slow down in pops) and start training this new guy alongside Ellsworth - I agree that Bradwell is a good player and has reasonable skills as well but is also 21 and so will slow down - so really do I carry on 1 postiion training with Ellsworth Singh and Bradwell or drop one or both of the older ones for a 19 yo?

cheers

Lambaw :0)

Last edited by Lambaw at 5/12/2010 7:28:51 AM

You answered the title of this thread. The detailed question that was asked... Let me see if I can find it...

Just bought this guy and think he was good value as a 19y/o but wondered what other people think I am currently training 1 position training at pg or sg and was going to train this guy as well. What do the pros think??

I don't profess to be a pro by any means, but I know that when he has at least 3 better training options, the answer that makes sense to me is "This player is not of good value (to this specific team!) as you have at least 3 better candidates in the 2 positions you would train him in. These 3 players would not only have a better chance of training to a higher level of player, they will also be of greater value should you decide you need a better player in another position. You could train in multiple positions, but as your team is a good well rounded team for your division, you will need an aggressive approach if you wish to catch up to the teams in the next division should you be promoted."

For the record I will once again say that I said he is good value to 90% of lower division teams, but that he was not suited to his teams situation with there already being too many better options. Also I will say that your situation is much different as you started when the game was still rather young and had a lot less margin between you and the higher ranked teams, therefore team training was and still is the best strategy as you can maintain a good, equal roster. But it is an uphill struggle trying that same strategy trying to build a team almost from scratch to try and compete against the teams who have many seasons headstart on you.

I am aware that he doesn't need MVP's and HOF's in his team (note how my main trainee is allstar), but if he has 2 of them and is buying a star in the same position, it is counter productive for his situation. Not only is the star going to cap earlier reducing the quality of player, he will also have less of a resale value reducing the benefit of training over one with more potential. Therfore his team will not benefit by training him over the other 3 options. And as for my training, my player is rated as the starting SG in the U21 national team because he is well rounded. All the skills you listed that go a long way all pop quicker in single position.

And I never once said your player wasn't good. His skills are incredibly well rounded and I commend you for that. What I was saying is that he could have been trained a lot faster than that and my trainee whos skills I listed will have much higher skills at 25 if still being trained in single position. I can see what you are saying about how your strategy works for you, but your strategy is nothing like mine (and the situation being discussed) where you need to get almost instant progression rather than maintain a standard. I am over trying to explain now.

If He is seriously going to resold then just get a 18 yrs old guy and sell him in a season or 2 but both methods have its advantages.

I think:
2 position training = more guys train, more money from fringe player (the other 3 players that are not your focus), better team all-round faster.

1 position training = not worth it unless you have 3 great potential AND great starting skills (at least 5k salary with respectable in skills that matters. Big man must have big man skills not just 1 resp and 2 resp in bloody handling and driving. nice to have when you have respectable in your 3 Inside skills ) AND 18 yrs old . Your team will be sloppy for a while and you will have to get rid of 1 of them sooner or later since salary-wise is not smart just for a backup and you have to go out and buy players and start new training plan.

I guess 2 position training is building team and 1 position training is building your team around 2 guys or 1 guy...

Touche'.
Everything you say makes good sense.

I never said you said he was a bad player. You said that multi-position training is a waste of value, and since JCC has received no more than 4 single-position trainings since I bought him, that would make him a waste of value. Which is what I disagree with. If I had trained him at single position training, the other players on my team would not be anywhere near as good as they are now, nor would the players I have since sold.