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Game engine and bugs (thread closed)

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From: brian
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66639.5 in reply to 66639.2
Date: 1/1/2009 12:43:13 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
576576
Regarding a potential GE adjustment/rebalancing, maybe need to take a peek at the home court advantage, seems to have become more difficult over the seasons for any team to win away.

"Well, no ones gonna top that." - http://tinyurl.com/noigttt
From: sneakyB

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66639.6 in reply to 66639.5
Date: 1/1/2009 12:58:18 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
44
I second that, the HCA seems higher this season.

This Post:
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66639.7 in reply to 66639.3
Date: 1/1/2009 1:40:59 PM
1986 Celtics
IV.21
Overall Posts Rated:
88
I can say that I am continuing amazed at the ability of our users to detect bugs with disturbing accuracy. There was indeed a bug in the GE with respect to how OD team ratings were presented, that had to do with the SG OD contribution... (his jumpshot was being added to the rating and not the OD). Now before everyone freaks out and demands their games rerun, this is simply a presentational error.. as teamratings are not the things we principly use when calculating results for things in the GE.

I fixed it on Tuesday, so things should be presented better going forward.

perhaps this is the OD error ned is winking about...

This Post:
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66639.8 in reply to 66639.6
Date: 1/1/2009 1:44:41 PM
1986 Celtics
IV.21
Overall Posts Rated:
88
i do not believe we have changed the numerical size of the HCA, however, perhaps because it is a multiplicative effect it is having a larger effect with larger ratings...

this again gets at the core question of revisiting how all of our calculations scale within the GE. There are many areas that are probably not scaling as we would like them to. The problem is that reworking the formulas to scale better is going to involve a massive retuning of the GE and there is no guarantee that the competitive balance won't be thrown off.... meaning what was a good team in the old GE might be significantly worse in the new, and vice versa.... given that users have spent a lot of time and effort tuning their teams to the current game balance it is a challenge to figure out how to retune things without pissing everyone off.

EDIT: SOME OF THESE STATEMENTS MIGHT BE MISLEADING.. PLEASE READ (66639.86)

Last edited by BB-Forrest at 1/7/2009 9:48:19 PM

This Post:
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66639.9 in reply to 66639.7
Date: 1/1/2009 2:26:54 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
225225
perhaps this is the OD error ned is winking about...

This is correct. Good to know it's only presentational.

Last edited by GM-kozlodoev at 1/1/2009 2:27:27 PM

"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."
From: sneakyB
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66639.10 in reply to 66639.8
Date: 1/1/2009 3:35:55 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
44
I think a lot of us were under the wrong impression that the changes to the GE were rolled out to the official league games and not only for the scrimmages. And my personal impression was exactly what you're describing, the competitive balance beeing thrown off, I felt my team was worse only because of those changes. I guess I'm not one of those players you're talking that will acurately "feel" the bugs

This Post:
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66639.11 in reply to 66639.10
Date: 1/1/2009 4:11:52 PM
1986 Celtics
IV.21
Overall Posts Rated:
88
sorry let me clarify, i thought i did earlier... the changes were first rolled out to scrimmages, and then later were implemented for all games.... i was mistaken before when i suggested they hadn't. sorry for the confusion.

so that being said anyone have any bright ideas how to handle the conundrum?

either dont change anything and deal with issues like rebounding advantages not scalling as rebounding ratings get higher? or changing the way we do rebounding and potentially changing the competitive balance.. particularly for the higher leagues.

EDIT: SOME OF THESE STATEMENTS MIGHT BE MISLEADING.. PLEASE READ (66639.86)

Last edited by BB-Forrest at 1/7/2009 9:48:43 PM

From: ned
This Post:
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66639.12 in reply to 66639.2
Date: 1/1/2009 4:15:11 PM
Freccia Azzurra
IV.18
Overall Posts Rated:
823823
Second Team:
Slaytanic
Forrest, only to discuss, don't you think that the teams training ID, IS or rebound are a little bit stronger than teams that are use to play outside? In Italy all the championships won training "inside", in BBB all the teams have better ratings using look inside and I think all of them are training center and PG.
We discussed already in Italy about this matter and the conclusion was that training center and PG was good for immediate result but that who trains shorter players but after some seasons I think there is still a gap between tallers and shorters


1990-2022 Stalinorgel - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pV-Xppl6h8Et
This Post:
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66639.13 in reply to 66639.11
Date: 1/1/2009 4:24:42 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
167167
every online game i have played, when it was either hattrick or world of warcraft or one off the other many games, there are always balancing issues. some have a bigger impact than others. As long as the ones that cause major problems get dealt with, I hope you will keep the changes to the game engine to a minimum. There will always be unhappy "whining" bunnies, whatever changes you make. When I look at the statistics from the games and not to the team player ratings or individual player ratings, 95% off the results (if not a higher %) make total sense. I think people should stop looking at nice words (the ratings) and use their brains and look at their statistics. So many posts in the "how did i loose this game" are easy to explain as 1+1=2. I am a total noob when it comes to basketball, but I use my brains.

I might be totally off topic here and there might be a problem with the game engine, but i bet 99% off the people are happy with this game. (most likely because it is so much better than hattrick). So why not just fix small issues, and leave the happy people happy??

From: BB-Forrest

To: ned
This Post:
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66639.14 in reply to 66639.12
Date: 1/1/2009 4:25:16 PM
1986 Celtics
IV.21
Overall Posts Rated:
88
i do think that outside teams have a harder time these days... like i said before, i would like to raise the outside shooting rates across the board... the question is how to do that without pissing off all those italian teams that trained inside for so long.

perhaps the best we can do is announce the change now and implement it for scrimmages for the rest of this season and then make the change next season.

note... this is not an announcement, i am only speaking for myself here.

EDIT: SOME OF THESE STATEMENTS MIGHT BE MISLEADING.. PLEASE READ (66639.86)

Last edited by BB-Forrest at 1/7/2009 9:48:58 PM

This Post:
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66639.15 in reply to 66639.14
Date: 1/1/2009 4:32:24 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
225225
i do think that outside teams have a harder time these days... .

This can be due to multiple reasons unrelated to the game engine. The first that come to mind are the total disdain for training Jump Range (which seems to help your three-point efficiency quite a bit) and Passing (which, likewise, seems to help with not taking poor quality shots).

Of course, maybe I am totally wrong and even though the entire player population is trained as expected, but you're the guys who have all the data, so...

"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."
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