BuzzerBeater Forums

Bit of a segway from the recent Buoc Pham saga.

Firstly this post is not a witch-hunt or blame game. Just want to get some dicussion going surrounding NT training player mentoring etc etc

Wow

Plus one and absolutely brilliant analysis

Dont want a witch hunt on Brooksy.

There is an old saying people dont fail, systems do.

For all we know Brooksy might be a 15yo kid whos done better than his best

Maybe we need to put in some systems.

Perhaps a job position for both National Manager jobs, a list of expectations and have some sort of audit or end of season report to see that the job and the expectations are getting done as they are meant to be.

Be great if we can make a positive out of this negative loss of a player which happenned on many levels, in that he wasnt trained as he should have been and that he slipped through the market as well

Good points Whitebeard about the system failures

There is also a system problem with the way that the game is structured.

Was the Manager able to fire the player and by doing so avoid paying his weekly paycheck and if so is this "fair" after only buying him a few days before?

Why is it so cheap to buy "monsters"?

Is it right that "monsters" get auto listed way above their estimated value?


The U21s argument also is a point.

In horse racing there is a belief that a lot of good horses are getting developed to quickly to chase the 2 yo races and as a result never mature properly.

U21s to some extent does encourage the development of "non balanced players"

Should we consider excluding HOFs and alltime greats from U21s so that they can get the proper foundation skills required to make them potential National Team Players?

Perhaps consider only MVPs and down for U21s?


Last edited by Sid Vicious at 9/22/2013 9:03:32 AM

Maybe we need a NT Committee of the NT, 21 NT and 3 others who can look these things? I think with high potential guys to take them fully out of 21 will make it harder for a newer manager to follow a training plan of 7 or 8 seasons to make the NT. While the 21 NT is 3 seasons of training to get some reward. But I think any high potential guys need to be contacted once they finish 21 NT by someone from the NT and informed of the benefit of doing some 2ndary training at that stage. Sometimes we get lucky and get high potential guys with good 2ndaries. But sadly we do not get a lot of them at all.

Holy crap a commitee!?!?! Look at what ive done!!!!!!!!!!!

thanks all for posting - look a lot of good work has been done with having assistants in thte U21.
NT guys tend to be peaking around late 20's, so really, maybe it should just be the same for NT as for U21.
NT assistants for 25/26's, 27's and 28's. scout, ask for skills, training plan, give the NT manager an update on what the team is going to be like in 2-3 seasons time.
Some guys might be in NT earlier, some might not. same as U21.

We have already taken good steps with the U21, lets build on that.

DW made a very interesting point before about wandering interest in the game. already we have a few big names sitting around in Div II, III, IV, just chilling and tanking/training etc. Some of these tasks might be good for them to get over the grind of a tanking season. GIve them some responsibility and a sense of importance in the game.

I dont feel its neccassary to exclude Hofmers and above from U21, but i do know EXACTLY what Sid is talking about. U get an U21 guy, you train him to make sure he stays in that team, not so taht he can make NT in 7 seasons time.
but fortunately its 7 seasons LOL.... so there is time to make up that 'balance'.

Keep up the good work everyone.

Maybe we need a NT Committee of the NT, 21 NT and 3 others who can look these things? I think with high potential guys to take them fully out of 21 will make it harder for a newer manager to follow a training plan of 7 or 8 seasons to make the NT. While the 21 NT is 3 seasons of training to get some reward. But I think any high potential guys need to be contacted once they finish 21 NT by someone from the NT and informed of the benefit of doing some 2ndary training at that stage. Sometimes we get lucky and get high potential guys with good 2ndaries. But sadly we do not get a lot of them at all

Good points, perhaps however a HOF trainee, perhaps should be directed by the National Team coach with regards to training even if still of an age when eligible to play for U21s, and if they are still good enough to play U21s then let them play.

(Bigger picture rather than quick success)

Yourself and Iwen are great, but I resisted pressure from both of you at different stages with regards to how I trained Williams, as you both at one stage wanted me to focus on JS etc, where as I was committed to training Inside skills.

The "template" for required skills for Aussie U21 SFs actually changed whilst during Iwens last season as coach.

Not saying either of you were wrong, if Id trained JS & JR instead of inside skills he might have ultimately ended up a better player in the long run as well as being a better U21s player.

I do like the idea of a committe but its systems we need and not just more volunteers and positions.

(spoken like a true systems auditor, my business opens in about 2 weeks time)

Having this debate, especially with the direction that the excellent points by Coach Regan and Whitebeard, is great

On a separate topic its quite possible that Dire and myself probably know each other in real life

Given from memory that he lives in Bewrick and I live in Narre, its probable that we might know each other through either Dandenong or Cranbourne Basketball stadiums




Last edited by Sid Vicious at 9/22/2013 9:43:35 AM

You are from Nazza Wazza? That explains a lot!

U21s to some extent does encourage the development of "non balanced players"

Should we consider excluding HOFs and alltime greats from U21s so that they can get the proper foundation skills required to make them potential National Team Players?

Perhaps consider only MVPs and down for U21s?

A simple solution would be to have a second group of young players, those that may not make U21 but could/should make NT one day. This would allow people to do the secondaries training in the early years, thus likely making them useless for U21, however it would make them more valuable (and more likely) for NT in the long run. As you said, training for U21 encourages non balanced players, but training well rounded players can get players off the U21 radar and therefore off the mentor program. The two goals do not always go together however the current mentor system forces it.

My 2c.

No scrimmage yet again tonight, wow.

yep.

this would be pretty straight forward - all players they arent going to make the final squad and have say, MVP or better potential, should be directed to train secondaries for one or two seasons (where appropriate of course)

yep.

this would be pretty straight forward - all players they arent going to make the final squad and have say, MVP or better potential, should be directed to train secondaries for one or two seasons (where appropriate of course)

Why not have it that any potential SFs MVP and above, and all other players HOF and above fall straight into the guidence of the senior National team regardless of age and converesly those players under the age of 21 who dont fit into the categories as listed above are the responsibility of the U21s.

This way HOFs etc who are under age of 21 are still guided on a long term development strategy, but still could make the U21s if their skills were okay.

If in the U21s team they could receive directions for training but these directions would be in consultation with the National Team who would have the ultimate say.

Of this seasons U21s its only Hutton who would be affected
Of the 16 players listed on last seasons thread there would have only been 4 players affected being; Barth, Sacks (MVP SF), Williams (whos Manager still took the long term approach) and Brar

MVPs (with the exception of SFs) and below have no chance of making the National Team anyhow, so they may as well chase short term glory in the U21s.

HOF gaurds wont be trained that different, its really only the HOF talls who would miss the U21s under this concept, but we'd have better depth as a result in the National Team

yer this could work as well.

I guess what we are tryign to achieve is the elimination of mono-trained potential NT players, because their manager thinks they will make U21.

personally, if 2-3 guys get mono-trained for the benefit of the U21 team, per season, this is probably an 'acceptable loss' level. you would think most other players, regardless of how they are trained, wouldnt be mono-skilled.

But having all the 'fringe' U21 guys still getting mono-skilled trained, simply because the manager thinks that they could possibily make the team, is a bit pointless and this is the thing we would like to avoid.

yer this could work as well.

I guess what we are tryign to achieve is the elimination of mono-trained potential NT players, because their manager thinks they will make U21.

personally, if 2-3 guys get mono-trained for the benefit of the U21 team, per season, this is probably an 'acceptable loss' level. you would think most other players, regardless of how they are trained, wouldnt be mono-skilled.

But having all the 'fringe' U21 guys still getting mono-skilled trained, simply because the manager thinks that they could possibily make the team, is a bit pointless and this is the thing we would like to avoid

Actually given the amount of quality SFs in training, we could probably forget MVPs alltogether and just have it across the board that any draftee who is HOF or above, regardless of age, is mentored by the National team

Any trainee up to the age of 21 who is MVP or less is mentored by the U21 team

MVPs or less over the age of 21 would be mentored by whom? (MVPs or less wont make National Team)

WE Wouldnt have a hand over problem,
We wouldnt have HOFs who are fringe U21s becoming mono skilled
The very best HOFs could still potentially play U21s but would be under guidence of National Team who would consult with U21s coach


Last edited by Sid Vicious at 9/23/2013 4:48:15 AM