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Maybe we need a NT Committee of the NT, 21 NT and 3 others who can look these things? I think with high potential guys to take them fully out of 21 will make it harder for a newer manager to follow a training plan of 7 or 8 seasons to make the NT. While the 21 NT is 3 seasons of training to get some reward. But I think any high potential guys need to be contacted once they finish 21 NT by someone from the NT and informed of the benefit of doing some 2ndary training at that stage. Sometimes we get lucky and get high potential guys with good 2ndaries. But sadly we do not get a lot of them at all

Good points, perhaps however a HOF trainee, perhaps should be directed by the National Team coach with regards to training even if still of an age when eligible to play for U21s, and if they are still good enough to play U21s then let them play.

(Bigger picture rather than quick success)

Yourself and Iwen are great, but I resisted pressure from both of you at different stages with regards to how I trained Williams, as you both at one stage wanted me to focus on JS etc, where as I was committed to training Inside skills.

The "template" for required skills for Aussie U21 SFs actually changed whilst during Iwens last season as coach.

Not saying either of you were wrong, if Id trained JS & JR instead of inside skills he might have ultimately ended up a better player in the long run as well as being a better U21s player.

I do like the idea of a committe but its systems we need and not just more volunteers and positions.

(spoken like a true systems auditor, my business opens in about 2 weeks time)

Having this debate, especially with the direction that the excellent points by Coach Regan and Whitebeard, is great

On a separate topic its quite possible that Dire and myself probably know each other in real life

Given from memory that he lives in Bewrick and I live in Narre, its probable that we might know each other through either Dandenong or Cranbourne Basketball stadiums




Last edited by Sid Vicious at 9/22/2013 9:43:35 AM

You are from Nazza Wazza? That explains a lot!

U21s to some extent does encourage the development of "non balanced players"

Should we consider excluding HOFs and alltime greats from U21s so that they can get the proper foundation skills required to make them potential National Team Players?

Perhaps consider only MVPs and down for U21s?

A simple solution would be to have a second group of young players, those that may not make U21 but could/should make NT one day. This would allow people to do the secondaries training in the early years, thus likely making them useless for U21, however it would make them more valuable (and more likely) for NT in the long run. As you said, training for U21 encourages non balanced players, but training well rounded players can get players off the U21 radar and therefore off the mentor program. The two goals do not always go together however the current mentor system forces it.

My 2c.

No scrimmage yet again tonight, wow.

yep.

this would be pretty straight forward - all players they arent going to make the final squad and have say, MVP or better potential, should be directed to train secondaries for one or two seasons (where appropriate of course)

yep.

this would be pretty straight forward - all players they arent going to make the final squad and have say, MVP or better potential, should be directed to train secondaries for one or two seasons (where appropriate of course)

Why not have it that any potential SFs MVP and above, and all other players HOF and above fall straight into the guidence of the senior National team regardless of age and converesly those players under the age of 21 who dont fit into the categories as listed above are the responsibility of the U21s.

This way HOFs etc who are under age of 21 are still guided on a long term development strategy, but still could make the U21s if their skills were okay.

If in the U21s team they could receive directions for training but these directions would be in consultation with the National Team who would have the ultimate say.

Of this seasons U21s its only Hutton who would be affected
Of the 16 players listed on last seasons thread there would have only been 4 players affected being; Barth, Sacks (MVP SF), Williams (whos Manager still took the long term approach) and Brar

MVPs (with the exception of SFs) and below have no chance of making the National Team anyhow, so they may as well chase short term glory in the U21s.

HOF gaurds wont be trained that different, its really only the HOF talls who would miss the U21s under this concept, but we'd have better depth as a result in the National Team

yer this could work as well.

I guess what we are tryign to achieve is the elimination of mono-trained potential NT players, because their manager thinks they will make U21.

personally, if 2-3 guys get mono-trained for the benefit of the U21 team, per season, this is probably an 'acceptable loss' level. you would think most other players, regardless of how they are trained, wouldnt be mono-skilled.

But having all the 'fringe' U21 guys still getting mono-skilled trained, simply because the manager thinks that they could possibily make the team, is a bit pointless and this is the thing we would like to avoid.

yer this could work as well.

I guess what we are tryign to achieve is the elimination of mono-trained potential NT players, because their manager thinks they will make U21.

personally, if 2-3 guys get mono-trained for the benefit of the U21 team, per season, this is probably an 'acceptable loss' level. you would think most other players, regardless of how they are trained, wouldnt be mono-skilled.

But having all the 'fringe' U21 guys still getting mono-skilled trained, simply because the manager thinks that they could possibily make the team, is a bit pointless and this is the thing we would like to avoid

Actually given the amount of quality SFs in training, we could probably forget MVPs alltogether and just have it across the board that any draftee who is HOF or above, regardless of age, is mentored by the National team

Any trainee up to the age of 21 who is MVP or less is mentored by the U21 team

MVPs or less over the age of 21 would be mentored by whom? (MVPs or less wont make National Team)

WE Wouldnt have a hand over problem,
We wouldnt have HOFs who are fringe U21s becoming mono skilled
The very best HOFs could still potentially play U21s but would be under guidence of National Team who would consult with U21s coach


Last edited by Sid Vicious at 9/23/2013 4:48:15 AM

I dunno, I kinda disagree a bit with all this.

Just because a bloke is monoskilled at age 21, doesn't mean he will be monoskilled by 26/27, when he should be pushing for the NT. There is another 5-6 seasons of training in there.

Wayne is one of the best U21 bigs we have had. I can assure you he won't be a monoskilled centre by the time he is 26 or 27.

Train big man skills early. Make the U21s. Train outside skills after. Two birds, one stone?

I dunno, I kinda disagree a bit with all this.

Just because a bloke is monoskilled at age 21, doesn't mean he will be monoskilled by 26/27, when he should be pushing for the NT. There is another 5-6 seasons of training in there.

Wayne is one of the best U21 bigs we have had. I can assure you he won't be a monoskilled centre by the time he is 26 or 27 :P.

Train big man skills early. Make the U21s. Train outside skills after. Two birds, one stone?

Wayne is a MVP
Wayne is Managed by one of the very best

How many Managers will go back to training outside skills with a 21 or 22 yo centre when their salaries have reached 100K or plus a week, and by doing so you are now uncompetitive in the games you play such a C at PG, plus you have lost his input as a centre



Last edited by Sid Vicious at 9/23/2013 5:07:56 AM

No matter what, there is going to be a hit to performance. Either you train inside skills first and then get the hit having to play a bloke with big man skills at PG. Or you train outside skills, and have to play a bloke with guard skills at C (and have the bloke train painfully slow early, making him take longer to be a useful contributor to the team). I do see the salary point though.

Of course, alot of secondaries can be got at through one on one/JS training for forwards. Passing and OD is a bit more painful. But we aren't talking SFs here. While its nice to have guys who can passing and defend well at PF/C, they don't need to be stupendous there.

I'm pretty well of the belief that though, in order for the U21 team to succeed, we can't go taking top players out of the potential pool - especially since alot of the top trainers focus on HoF+ types.