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in RL this might be right but here it seems to be different after my experience, i checked NT games who are decided by are clear margin(+30) in the past to compare the number of fouls with teams of different skill level and is was nearly the same even when italy plays against a 20 user country.

And aggresiness is a hidden attribute of a player and not connected to tactics.

I was not saying I knew how BB worked, I was using common sense and logic to explain how fouls should primarily work and I agree you could combine what I spoke of with a SMALLfactor of randomness and hidden "knack to foul."

I don't understand, how are you paying the price? You get training minutes and you can play tie. Forfeiting team does not get training minutes and get's a *, making him lose point difference tiebreaker. They are punished enough, thus there is no need of assigning players to those teams from air. With 3 players you can play a game, below that it will be a forfeit.
I'm not against any change, just against changes that make no sense. How is forfeit flawed? Remember we are talking about the whole BB not just lower leagues. I would not like someone having the league record from one of these games. Scoring 100 points or whatever. If a team goes bankrupt, all players will be listed, he might end up forfeiting the rest of the season. About one game for everyone in the league. Then he relegates.
How many forfeits have you had? 1? Did it screw up your game? I also like the fact that teams fielding only 5 players for training purposes, could have 2 injuries and one foul out -> thus losing all training. Risk reward.
Remember we can not change things just for the sake of change. I can't wait to see your other suggestions.

Last edited by Kukoc at 4/30/2010 2:57:25 AM

When I had my forfeit I wasn't even knowledgeable enough for it to affect me, admittedly. It's not about me, it's about the greater good and the fact that you argue for realism.....well this is not realism and anybody with a lick of common sense would see this. I think outside of the stubborn hierarchy of this game most would agree, but we all know that logical changes won't happen. The fact that you state this is not whatsoever flawed after you argue for realism is ridiculous. This is my last post concerning this topic as I am no longer willing to offer up multiple ideas only to have someone who could care less about the improvement of the game argue with ignorance just to keep the game as it is.

I will continue playing BB because it is fun, BUT I do this knowing improvements will be few and far between because of people like you. This is not change for the sake of change. It is change for the sake of creating a less flawed system and a better way of doing things. Just because it does not affect members very often does not mean the system should stay the same. Anytime a player is allowed to have the power of voluntarily doing something like this is not acceptable. Yes they get punished to an extent, but if they are not going to the playoffs or close to the last relegation spot, then it really doesn't matter to them. If you made them cut all their players down to 2 then it might affect them a little more....and that would be a very small change of creating automatic lineups with the players on the roster if there are enough. You do not want change because it is always easier to stay in the same place and accept the way things have always been. The changes I suggest are not complex in nature and it could make things BETTER and people could still play the game they want, they just wouldn't be able to screw each other over. You are not acceptable to ANY idea or even try to constructively criticize things. How you are an "asset" to the BB community and are able to have y our position is beyond me...

Last edited by Stauder at 4/30/2010 8:06:20 AM

i think your system would be more flawed than it is now. if you automatically create weak players that will participate in league games, then what results will we have? like la-kukoc said 300-14? then the country records would be most points 200, most rebounds 120 by player. will this be less flawed system? also league records, player histories of quintuple-doubles with a salary 6k.

You are getting too emotional about this.
I gave an example what would happen if we had a forfeit like in real life. No played minutes. How you managed to read something else out of it, I do not understand. There are so many things in this game that work differently compared to real life -> why? because it suits the game and not everything can be transfered into the game. Examples: Arena, staff salary, training etc.
Please get it through you thick scull, your suggestion is not an improvement. I have given you plenty of reasons why your suggestion would not work, you just disregard them.
Could you please post your other suggestions (you said you have a lot of them), perhaps some of them are good. From those we can also evaluate how much you understand the game and see links between different areas of the game.

I have read your arguments thoroughly and they all contradict what you argued earlier in the thread about realism.

No played minutes is a forfeit.
Forfeits don't happen in real life.
Training is not done during games in real life. GET THAT THROUGH YOUR THICK SKULL.

My suggestion was not to employ more realism, but to make a more fair system. You added the realism portion to your argument earlier before I even posted.

Now as to the 300-14 comment...that is easily fixed by a maximum Point Differential earned for ANY league game, which I think should be employed anyway as it is in many leagues. Cap it at 30 or so and that's an easy fix. So you win by 276, but you get the max PD of 30 and still your guys get trained as they should have been.

Like I said though, advancement in the game is resisted and therefore the game will not grow or improve very quickly. I am content in playing it how it is and I still have fun, but do not hold out any hope whatsoever of it getting better. I have other friends that have been playing far longer than I that feel the same way.

Last edited by Stauder at 4/30/2010 5:54:28 PM

Forfeits don't happen in real life.

How can you still claim that when I gave you an example from real life? Are you saying there are no forfeits in USA? Because there are forfeits in basketball. Training system suits the game.

maximum Point Differential.Cap it at 30 or so and that's an easy fix.

So you want to cap any higher win at 30? You are not making any sence. If I win someone with a 45 point margin why should it be taken away from me? There are no minute penaltys for the losing team? This bit showed exactly you have no idea how things work.

Like I said though, advancement in the game is resisted

Have you been playing last 3 seasons? The game has evolved considerably. With a lot of new additions. This is the best game online and it's constantly getting better. I also do not believe you have friends:)

I said the cap could be around 30, not 30, BUT this is a common thing done in many leagues here in the US both at the college and high school levels.I'm not sure if they have it in the professional ranks here. Capping the PD is not uncommon, mainly because of sportsmanship and fairness of play. It would not penalize you as everyone would abide by this rule.

There are no forfeits at the professional or even the collegiate level. I have only been a part of one forfeit at the high school level (which is what i coach) and that was because of gang related shootings that our opponent was tied to and they were afraid to travel to our field. Forfeits at higher ranks do not happen....and if you can find isolated incidents they would not add up to what BB would add up to.

Now, you are correct that the training suits the game, and that's precisely why it needs to be tweaked to make it suit the game better and not penalize teams that are trying to achieve specific training minutes.

What baffles me is that you care more about capping the PD than you care about your weekly training being screwed up. You claim that it penalizes a team for running up a score to cap the PD. Really you could cap the PD at 50 for all I care, just as long as it would prevent the unfair advantage of your example of a 300-14 match.

But how do you decide the records issue? Any games capped will be uneligible for records? So that is another loophole. I have never heard about capping PD in europe on any league level.
You could type forfeit into google and find some college level forfeits in US.
My weekly training is fine, why? because I can adapt and one week in training actually means nothing in the long run. I rarely have more than one WO in a season. I have tested walkover minutes in the past, so I kind of have the idea how to max out needed minutes.
I still think WO is a better solution than capping the winning margin and creating atrocious skilled players for the losing team. With walkover you know what minutes you will be getting. With scrub game you will have problems keeping your players on the floor -> eventually losing more minutes. You and me both do not know how easy/hard it would be to tweak lucky fans or the game engine.

You could still win by plenty of points, but only get credit in the PD column for a capped limit.

Now you could stricken all games against "bot" teams from the records which would only be fair.