BuzzerBeater Forums

Wait man, I never said I hate him. I just don't "love Love" like you do.
It's an opinion, and I recognise that it's one that's really hard to quantify other than anecdotally.
Your stance is far more popular, and far easier to support too.

But really - "no matter what"? I'm not sure what you mean there...
You can't say stuff like you said about Kareem, then not expect to get called on it if it's wrong.
That's fair... right?

It's a good thing Kareem has you in his corner.

Back when Alcindor was in his second year he scored almost 32 ppg, and avg'd 16 RB per game.Some people started comparing him to Wilt. Others were outraged by the comparison saying not in his wildest dreams, there is no one like Wilt. Is Love putting up the same numbers? no. Some would say Kareem faced tougher opposition than Wilt, some could say the same about comparing Love to Kareem. There is no doubt in my mind that the level of athleticism in the NBA is much higher than it was in Wilts day, or Kareems for that matter. No different today. When Kobe first hit the scene, many said he was the new Jordan. Many others were offended at even the notion that someone could ever be like Jordan. Kind of how you are treating Love. With every new generation wwe see alot of young talent every year, and we know a few of them will go on to be all time greats. All time greats arent just from the past, they are being made as we speak as well.

It seems odd to me that you are such a big basketball fan. For someone who doesnt like showoffs, players who make egotistical statements (like im going to win the RB title) and stat whores it sure seems you picked the wrong sport to love. Some of the biggest names in basketball over the decades have been nothing different than how you see Love. A stat whore who cares more for his image and numbers than anything else. That seems to be NBA standard.

If you want to 'dislike' on Love that is your choice, I respect that. If you expect me or others who watch him and think 'wow' to feel the same as you, that is a much longer walk.

Last edited by buzzerbeatme at 2/2/2011 10:12:58 AM

Well... firstly, it's a bit disappointing this appears to be headed into acrimonious waters. Was enjoying it.
However, I can assure you there's no malevolence in where I'm standing...

So anyway:
Does Kareem need anyone in his corner?

Dude... I never said I wanted you to dislike him. I don't think I even said I dislike him. I just explained why a) I'm not a huge fan, and b) I didn't think he should be in the all star game. I'll respect your decision to go the other way, and I'll offer no provisos on that.

I'm sure there are players you dislike... for whatever reason.
And c'mon man? Dime-store psycho-analysis of my fandom? Where did I state that I didn't like/enjoy the flash/glory of the NBA? I did say that I don't like it when players put themselves before the game (don't like it when Kobe does it, and I'm a Lakers fan! Example: the 7 assists in the first quarter against Houston...), and I *believe* Kevin Love does that on a nightly basis.
And why do you think that's predominant?

I will tell you that I think Love has - generally - a good head on his shoulders. I enjoyed it when he went up against LeBron in the press on the issue of contraction. And I guess I enjoy his honesty.
I just don't like the way he single-mindedly chases rebounds... when it means that he might miss a rotation on defense.
I also recognise that I am definitely in the minority on this stance.

Not sure what you mean by dime-store psycho analysis. NBA is a game a flash, stats, ego, and finally competition. That is how I and many I talk to feel about it. I was only saying that for anyone to expect otherwise is a pipe dream. NBA players get paid almost exlusively based on stats with rare exception. So to expect any player to lower his stats for the good of the team doesnt seem like a good bet. For someone who stated they dont like players who put themselves first, the NBA seems a strange place to worship. Not psycho analyzing you, and I feel you stating this is just an arguement strategy. Are we trying to win a debate or discussing basketball?

So, if stats and flash shouldnt get you in the all-star game, what criteria would you suggest? All team oriented players?

I agree that it sucks when some players put their personal achievements ahead of the team's. I also concede that Love is probably doing whatever he can to pad his stats. I would like to state why I think in Love's case this isnt such a bad thing. I welcome rebuttal :)

1. Turning a 10 win team into a 20 win team isnt much incentive to play the way you suggest (and I agree) he should. Not saying this makes it ok, just throwing it in the mix.

2. No one in Minnesota is buying tickets to see Felton or expecting a win. Really only one reason right now to go see the TWolves.

3. Basketball teams have such few players on their roster and most top lottery picks go right in the lineup. Getting a shot at the first pick, and adding a potential starter to a team with Love allready in place can turn that team around. Especially if they add a FA to Love, Felton, and a #1 pick. It sounds like a poor sportsmanship approach, perhaps it is, but I bet the GM is thinking the same thing.

As a fellow Laker fan I am betting you think this next statement is blasphemous, but here goes.....If the TWolves offered a trade straight up Love for Bynum (your piuck for AS starter) I would jump at that trade in a hot second.

Last edited by buzzerbeatme at 2/3/2011 3:17:03 PM

NBA players get paid almost exlusively based on stats with rare exception. So to expect any player to lower his stats for the good of the team doesnt seem like a good bet.

If any of have read the work of Sport Economist David Berri, he runs a bunch of numbers and essentially concludes that NBA players get paid mostly based on how many points they score and from a financial sense it makes more sense for him to take more "bad" shots than pass the ball to a teammate for a higher percentage shot.

I am going to check that out. Anyplace particular I should look? link perhaps?

I have seen footage of alot of old laker games. My dad and grandad have all this old video saved. I love to watch Magic on a fast break with a clear and unblocked path to the hoop dish off with the no look for the assist. It was actually a lower % play to dish off but the next day in the papers where magic got 12 assists you think 'now there is a team player'.

Berri's good.
You can read his stuff at his blog (http://dberri.wordpress.com/)

So now that the teams are all set, who do you think will win? I'm not sure there is a good way to tell considering how the games go. In my memories it's usually some guy who barely made the AS who wants to step up and prove he belongs who decides it. The big names play some, dunk a few, and laugh alot.

Last edited by buzzerbeatme at 2/5/2011 5:09:12 PM

Unfortunately... you're spot on. That's definitely the way it usually travels.
However... I get the feeling that LBJ/Wade/Bosh AND the Celtics will feel that they have something to prove. And I don't think Kobe EVER plays it light. Blake Griffin will be going nuts out there. And I think that Durant/Melo both have their own motivation to play well too. And Kevin Love... of course.

I get the feeling that there could be some real acrimony in this game... and that's a great thing for basketball fans.

Agreed. If I had to pick a winner, I guess I would go with the East. Mostly because the Celtics and Heat have several players, so they are used to working together.

Last edited by buzzerbeatme at 2/5/2011 7:29:14 PM