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84878.514 in reply to 84878.513
Date: 9/23/2013 4:22:02 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
766766
yer this could work as well.

I guess what we are tryign to achieve is the elimination of mono-trained potential NT players, because their manager thinks they will make U21.

personally, if 2-3 guys get mono-trained for the benefit of the U21 team, per season, this is probably an 'acceptable loss' level. you would think most other players, regardless of how they are trained, wouldnt be mono-skilled.

But having all the 'fringe' U21 guys still getting mono-skilled trained, simply because the manager thinks that they could possibily make the team, is a bit pointless and this is the thing we would like to avoid.





This Post:
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84878.515 in reply to 84878.514
Date: 9/23/2013 4:47:30 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
536536
yer this could work as well.

I guess what we are tryign to achieve is the elimination of mono-trained potential NT players, because their manager thinks they will make U21.

personally, if 2-3 guys get mono-trained for the benefit of the U21 team, per season, this is probably an 'acceptable loss' level. you would think most other players, regardless of how they are trained, wouldnt be mono-skilled.

But having all the 'fringe' U21 guys still getting mono-skilled trained, simply because the manager thinks that they could possibily make the team, is a bit pointless and this is the thing we would like to avoid


Actually given the amount of quality SFs in training, we could probably forget MVPs alltogether and just have it across the board that any draftee who is HOF or above, regardless of age, is mentored by the National team

Any trainee up to the age of 21 who is MVP or less is mentored by the U21 team

MVPs or less over the age of 21 would be mentored by whom? (MVPs or less wont make National Team)

WE Wouldnt have a hand over problem,
We wouldnt have HOFs who are fringe U21s becoming mono skilled
The very best HOFs could still potentially play U21s but would be under guidence of National Team who would consult with U21s coach


Last edited by Sid Vicious at 9/23/2013 4:48:15 AM

This Post:
00
84878.516 in reply to 84878.515
Date: 9/23/2013 4:57:13 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
326326
I dunno, I kinda disagree a bit with all this.

Just because a bloke is monoskilled at age 21, doesn't mean he will be monoskilled by 26/27, when he should be pushing for the NT. There is another 5-6 seasons of training in there.

Wayne is one of the best U21 bigs we have had. I can assure you he won't be a monoskilled centre by the time he is 26 or 27.

Train big man skills early. Make the U21s. Train outside skills after. Two birds, one stone?

This Post:
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84878.517 in reply to 84878.516
Date: 9/23/2013 5:06:24 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
536536
I dunno, I kinda disagree a bit with all this.

Just because a bloke is monoskilled at age 21, doesn't mean he will be monoskilled by 26/27, when he should be pushing for the NT. There is another 5-6 seasons of training in there.

Wayne is one of the best U21 bigs we have had. I can assure you he won't be a monoskilled centre by the time he is 26 or 27 :P.

Train big man skills early. Make the U21s. Train outside skills after. Two birds, one stone?


Wayne is a MVP
Wayne is Managed by one of the very best

How many Managers will go back to training outside skills with a 21 or 22 yo centre when their salaries have reached 100K or plus a week, and by doing so you are now uncompetitive in the games you play such a C at PG, plus you have lost his input as a centre



Last edited by Sid Vicious at 9/23/2013 5:07:56 AM

This Post:
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84878.518 in reply to 84878.517
Date: 9/23/2013 5:21:40 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
326326
No matter what, there is going to be a hit to performance. Either you train inside skills first and then get the hit having to play a bloke with big man skills at PG. Or you train outside skills, and have to play a bloke with guard skills at C (and have the bloke train painfully slow early, making him take longer to be a useful contributor to the team). I do see the salary point though.

Of course, alot of secondaries can be got at through one on one/JS training for forwards. Passing and OD is a bit more painful. But we aren't talking SFs here. While its nice to have guys who can passing and defend well at PF/C, they don't need to be stupendous there.

I'm pretty well of the belief that though, in order for the U21 team to succeed, we can't go taking top players out of the potential pool - especially since alot of the top trainers focus on HoF+ types.

This Post:
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84878.519 in reply to 84878.518
Date: 9/23/2013 5:25:27 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
536536
Wow I look forward to being able to play my SF trainees at SF.

Most of the training I give them for the first 6 to 8 seasons will be either while they are playing PG or C

This Post:
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84878.520 in reply to 84878.519
Date: 9/23/2013 5:35:23 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
326326
Of course. But I'm not talking about SFs.

What sort of secondaries is everyone after for a PF/C? I would suggest that someone like Duffill has pretty good secondaries for a PF (we can argue around more passing of whatever). He's played a handful of games at PG/SG at most in his career.


This Post:
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84878.521 in reply to 84878.518
Date: 9/23/2013 5:38:39 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
12661266
If someone is not going to be able to go back to outside skills for a big at 21+ are they really going to train for 7 seasons to make nt?
The issue is see is not enough info being shared between nt and 21 managers. Talk there and we fix most the issue. This came up due to a guy who's manager for a long time never responded to messages from nt mentor.
We don't have enough bigs in 21 nt as it is. Taken some out would kill 21 nt side and make it harder to motivae new trainers.
Guys like mllama will fix it. Guys with less experience will need goal 1 to keep them training.
A better way to help nt is to get the best trainers who can afford it to a group training plan. Iwen and kilktom are both doing young bigs. We need 3 to be doingv gs and 2 sf. Is we can get this sort of set up both teams can benefit IMO

Ps I'm phone on holidays. Can someone pm score and a little info about tonight's game? Can't watch. On phone.

This Post:
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84878.522 in reply to 84878.521
Date: 9/23/2013 6:08:50 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
214214
You can watch the text version of the play by play. Choose the option in the menu at the top right once you're on the match screen ;)

On topic, most players really only need a season or two of out of position training so yeah, it's not too big of a deal if they do it as a 22yo once they've done their bit for the U21 side.

A big man can do all his inside training and then 1 on 1 training from the C and PF spots. Passing is the main one that needs to come up and OD is always a plus too so a season of each once they're out of the U21 squad will be fine for most (and some could just do 1 season).

Guards are a similar story with IS/ID.

This Post:
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84878.523 in reply to 84878.516
Date: 9/23/2013 6:47:08 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
766766
Just because a bloke is monoskilled at age 21, doesn't mean he will be monoskilled by 26/27,


This is true.

i guess what we are trying to help eliminate are the extreme cases.
Like with Pham, he had atrocious passing and was 26 years old. even 2 full seasons of passing training would probably only get him up to Strong or thereabouts.
If this had been identified earlier, then a suitable buying/trainer could have been found. In the end, he did up being mono-skilled.
and perhaps in his case, maybe any effort wouldnt have made a difference because his younger trainer was a noob.

SO yer, i dont think its a case of blanket rule for all, just some general guidelines and monitoring to help prevent sad, sad, sad cases like Pham. im crying now. weeping, like during Gone with the Wind.

This Post:
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84878.524 in reply to 84878.523
Date: 9/23/2013 7:02:14 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
12661266
Some people just won't listen to advice. I assume he sold when he could not afford him anymore.
I'm advising some guys in 21 side to train 2ndaries as they would cap before doing if not done soon.

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