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And so what if some times an innocent person dies? Two words: collateral damage! No system is perfect, but at the end of the day if one innocent person dying means that the world is a better place overall, then that is an acceptable loss.

You're a fucking disgrace of a human being. I can't even begin to put into words just how ridiculous some of the dribble you post on here really is.

I'm not even going to argue with you. If you really believe any of the crap you post on here to be true, then you're an absolute fucking disgrace of a person. The world would be better off without oxygen thieves like you.

And you are the type of person that could never run a country, or make any hard decision in your life. I hope for the sake of society that you are never a police officer or a soldier or in any position of authority because you simply do not have what it takes. One life is not worth more than the lives of the many. The sooner you realise that, the better.

Last edited by Naker Virus at 9/30/2012 1:34:26 PM

That's gone way past an 'opinion'. If someone is going to post absolute crap like that, I reserve the right to tell him that he's disgrace.

The fact that you are unable to rebut the points I made just showed that you aren't listening to reason, but are instead allowing emotion to cloud your judgement. You just hear the terms death penalty and collateral damage and curl up into the foetal position with your fingers in your ears. Open your mind to the possibility that in the future, and probably the very near future, the death penalty will become a reality, not just because people will want it, but because they will need it.

Naker isn't allowed an opinion because he's not in ABBL. Didn't you read the ABBL forum a few weeks back :-p jks

Haha oh no, my apologies :P

Trying to be a little more brief today.

Why don't you trust the Australian government?

Lucky at the moment it is mainly incompetence and apathy rather than rampant corruption at the moment. Like the UN.

More science isn't the same as complex science

.

Yes as we both know it is often not the job of lawyers to make it simple but to make it confusing.

Judge-alone trials are becoming more common in practice. Maybe one day there will be no jury.

Being judged by our peers rather than some elite that has no empathy for us is one of the foundations of our legal system you are very quick to give it up. If you were in a country with Sharia law you would not be so quick.

Last edited by yodabig at 9/30/2012 6:14:07 PM

You want to allow murderers and rapists to be in the community being forced to work?

Yes. Behind bars in maximun security. Or on a modern version of a chain gang. Obviously not at the local supermarket.

Penalties being used as deterrents are one of the primary purposes considered in sentencing by the courts.

Penalties have multiple purposes. As far as deterrents go would it change your actions one bit if instead of three years jail for drink driving you got four years? I already agreed that there needs to be a serious penalty to be a deterrant not a trivial one. If the penalty for drink driving was life in jail, think about it, never getting out, a lifetime of rape and other violence, would you drink drive? Now imagine we changed the penalty to death would that change your actions?

Why are we wanting to live in a world where murderers and rapists are kept alive?

Why aren't you? Have you never heard of redemption? Forgiveness? A second chance? I am not saying I want a rapist or a murderer living in my house but off in a prison where they are getting better not worse is the ideal.

Over the last 20 years the prison population in Australia has doubled.

That is nothing. In USA prison is bigger than many states. If they were cost neutral I wouldn't care. If we didn't put poor people in prison for not paying fines where they turn into hardened criminals it would be better. There are already so many better alternatives for non-violent prisoners like home detention. The trouble is the legal system is seen to have no teeth by most.

As I said people don't commit murders or rapes because they think the penalties are low (although they often are) but because they think they will get no penalty or they don't think and no penalty will change their actions.

You want to allow murderers and rapists to be in the community being forced to work?

Yes. Behind bars in maximun security. Or on a modern version of a chain gang. Obviously not at the local supermarket.

Penalties being used as deterrents are one of the primary purposes considered in sentencing by the courts.

Penalties have multiple purposes. As far as deterrents go would it change your actions one bit if instead of three years jail for drink driving you got four years? I already agreed that there needs to be a serious penalty to be a deterrant not a trivial one. If the penalty for drink driving was life in jail, think about it, never getting out, a lifetime of rape and other violence, would you drink drive? Now imagine we changed the penalty to death would that change your actions?

Why are we wanting to live in a world where murderers and rapists are kept alive?

Why aren't you? Have you never heard of redemption? Forgiveness? A second chance? I am not saying I want a rapist or a murderer living in my house but off in a prison where they are getting better not worse is the ideal.

So you want to kill all murders. Rapists. What about bank robbers? Drunk drivers kill people lets execute them. I also hate people that litter. Next Muslims and Jews. Where do you want to stop Herr Naker?

Over the last 20 years the prison population in Australia has doubled.

That is nothing. In USA prison is bigger than many states. If they were cost neutral I wouldn't care. If we didn't put poor people in prison for not paying fines where they turn into hardened criminals it would be better. There are already so many better alternatives for non-violent prisoners like home detention. The trouble is the legal system is seen to have no teeth by most.

As I said people don't commit murders or rapes because they think the penalties are low (although they often are) but because they think they will get no penalty or they don't think and no penalty will change their actions.

Regarding population limits...

A totally different problem and way out of control right now. 7.043 billion people is way too much do you propose executing say 6 billion (7 Earths argument) to make things better because killing a few million will do nothing. Where shall we start? I never liked France much...

We certainly need to kill the disabled. Old need to go. Perhaps anyone that has an IQ below 120. Short people, any man under 6' but hot chicks are ok. Forced sterilisation for anyone that didn't vote Liberal. Also there are too many Asians. Lets have a lottery and kill 90%. Can do the same for Africa. All Jews and Muslins and Buddhists and what the heck anyone that is not part of our oficial state religion.

If Herr Naker was in charge of the world we would be living in the worst Orwellian nightmare I can imagine.

This is the exact problem with law school, they don't teach history. 99% of things Hitler, Mussolini and Stalin did were perfectly legal and the lawyers got rich creating hell on earth.

Last edited by yodabig at 9/30/2012 6:44:30 PM

Who are you to decide his much a single life is worth?

You're a keyboard hero, you sit behind your computer and spew dribble, passing it off as 'opinion' or 'rebuttal'. You have no idea what the real world is like. Being in law school doesn't make you better than any of us and if certainly doesn't make your opinions any more valid. You've proven what kind of man you are for everyone on here to see.

I hope you never come in contact with anyone that's lost an innocent person, as you obviously place no value on the worth of a human life. Next you'll be posting about how awesome Hitler was and how all the Jewish people he murdered were just collateral damage.

Yes. Behind bars in maximun security. Or on a modern version of a chain gang. Obviously not at the local supermarket.

What would be the benefit of this? Are we just doing it to keep them busy?

If the penalty for drink driving was life in jail, think about it, never getting out, a lifetime of rape and other violence, would you drink drive? Now imagine we changed the penalty to death would that change your actions?

Honestly, I don't know. I think both life sentences and death penalties are pretty good deterrents for me. Although, a life sentence in Australia is, on average, 25 years for murder. In 25 years time I would only be 47, so I suppose for me personally death would be a greater deterrent than a life sentence.

Why aren't you? Have you never heard of redemption? Forgiveness? A second chance? I am not saying I want a rapist or a murderer living in my house but off in a prison where they are getting better not worse is the ideal.

I am all for second chances for thieves, or assaults etc. But I think that murder and rape are such heinous crimes that they forfeit any consideration of a second chance. Do you really think keeping a murderer in prison with other criminals is going to make them better though?

If we didn't put poor people in prison for not paying fines where they turn into hardened criminals it would be better. There are already so many better alternatives for non-violent prisoners like home detention.

I agree completely. Jail should be reserved for the worst.

A totally different problem and way out of control right now. 7.043 billion people is way too much do you propose executing say 6 billion (7 Earths argument) to make things better because killing a few million will do nothing. Where shall we start? I never liked France much...

In theory, yes we should execute billions. However, humans are often more emotional than rational, so there would be complaints regarding this. A more practical solution might involve requiring a parenting license to have children, or some sort of forced sterilisation type situation. Unless you have a better solution?

As for where you would start, it would be based (ideally) on ability or value to society. Unless you have a better system by which people ought to be executed?

We certainly need to kill the disabled. Old need to go. Perhaps anyone that has an IQ below 120. Short people, any man under 6' but hot chicks are ok. Forced sterilisation for anyone that didn't vote Liberal. Also there are too many Asians. Lets have a lottery and kill 90%. Can do the same for Africa. All Jews and Muslins and Buddhists and what the heck anyone that is not part of our oficial state religion.

haha you are being facetious but you are on the right track. You shouldn't be sterilised or killed for the way you vote or your religion, and IQ should be changed to 100 instead of 120, and height should be 4' instead of 6', and it shouldn't be based on race, only on ability. It might not happen in the next decade, or maybe not even in the next 50 years, but I'm almost certain it will happen within the next hundred.

If Herr Naker was in charge of the world we would be living in the worst Orwellian nightmare I can imagine.

That depends on whether you consider Orwell's world to have been a bad one or not.

This is the exact problem with law school, they don't teach history. 99% of things Hitler, Mussolini and Stalin did were perfectly legal and the lawyers got rich creating hell on earth.

People can learn history in high school and on their own time. Hitler was supported by a large number of people in Germany if I remember correctly? Regardless, the main problem with always looking backwards is that you become afraid to look to the future. Afraid to try anything that has been tried before simply because, "It didn't work last time."

Who are you to decide his much a single life is worth?

I didn't decide the value of one life. I simply stated that two lives are worth more than one. And obviously a million lives are worth more than one too. I never attributed a value to one life. I merely stated that 2 is greater than 1.

I hope you never come in contact with anyone that's lost an innocent person, as you obviously place no value on the worth of a human life.

I place value in the human life. But I realise that a human life isn't priceless. Yoda said that he would kill a 7 year old girl if that meant that every single person in the world was cured of cancer. Does that mean he doesn't value the life of a human? Of course not. Yoda understands that, although the 7 year old girl's life is of immeasurable value, the lives of all the cancer patients in the world is far higher.