BuzzerBeater Forums

I've read most of this threads posts. Some good posts from both "sides"

no! no! NO! horrible posts on both "sides"
the whole argument of the economy was discussed a billion times (example: (69634.1), (129389.1))

everybody here just looks on it from their point of view
the basic argument is "what a great manager I am!" "no, you're a bad manager" "no, YOU're a bad manager"
500 really boring posts
this thread is a joke

can't we just ban this subject from the board?

The Italian and Spanish teams seem to have no capacity for long term planning and strategy. For example they often spend zero in scouting, yet landing a high potential draft pick can sell for anywhere from 1 to 5 million on the market. Even a so so prospect can net 500k. The value of scouting is increased even greater since no one in the league is spending any money on it, yet they still decline to do so. Surely the chance at such a windfall is worth a measly 10k a month. Likewise they are penny pinching in their training, their prospects, their arena, basically all of the ways to make money in the long term. Like they say in business you have to spend money to make money.

No one spend money on the draft,becaue the average level of the player of the draft is too low
A19 yo with the same rating of a 18yo should have higher strating skills.The 19yo lose a season of training because of his age,so you can't give him the same starting skills of a 18yo
A 4 ball rating 19yo became useless if his potential is not very very high,becaue at that point I can buy for few money a 18yo that will grow faster because of his age and with the same limit given by potential

And the old draft system was mainly based on luck,so nobody want to invest to have nothing,I always spend 10k/week on draft,and in seven season really few player deserve to be trained...i picked a player with almost all respectable and average in the outside skilss except for the atrocious OD with 9 potential....while someone could think to train that player,I old him,because to make him decent for a V division training OD till respectable,i would spend an entrie season,so having in the end a 19yo draftee with the same skills of some new draftee,but losing a lot of match an money during his training,what should have been my choice?

At least the new draft system(that we fight to change),allows you to spend the money you invest,in fact teams in italy are spending again some money on the draft because of it...

Last edited by Steve Karenn at 8/21/2010 11:28:05 AM

Right words,but that's not the point
The problem is not that we have few money,the point is that ther's an objective inequality for the users of various countries to act on the market.
And the market is the same for all
All the teams are operating near the cap,so while the best will win our league as is fair,we all can't use the market for improve,also if we use some kind of strategy to have money to spend on the market,because of the condition of competitivity in their league they will have more money

I can quietly play a game with the entire system of the BB economy that works with few money to avoid infllaction,but i not accept to be permananetly disadvantaged on the market.Others can have temporary better conditions to allow them to close the gap to the salary cap,but this didn't happen in the past and doesn't seem to happen soon,so we ae disadvantaged by the start of the game
That's the point

But as I dont see this really as an issue rooted in money, but more an issue of competition, and no im not saying you guys are bad managers or want an easier game, but it just seems to me the real issue here is how to have teams running at their caps, but still not feeling like they are locked in stone without a way to get out. At least thats as best as I can describe what ive read.

that is exactly how i see it.

but as far as i see it , its meant to be like this , the part i dont understand is why they think there disadvantaged on the market , the reason they have less money is because they already have bought/trained great players , and that is clearly not a disadvantage.

maybe some teams are not getting as much out of there players as they could be and that is why they are struggling, i believe i read a post earlier stating that a manager was coming 1st in his div having the lowest salary while the guy with the most salary is coming last.

Hellas is the 5th "biggest" community in BB..And I ask one question..

Who will have the better team after two seasons?A manager that starts in Div. V in Hellas,or a manager that starts in Div.II in Nippon??

The answer to this question is the problem imo.

There might be a little merit to your argument if small country teams were driving prices on the TL up, but they aren’t, or at least not noticeably. We’re in a deflationary period. Players are selling at market price, if you can’t afford them, you can’t afford them.

But, if you want to improve your team, and you’re at the cap or slightly in the negatives, here is what you do: Train a trainee with training strategies that will maximize profits, sell that player, sell a player or two to make more cap room in your team, then buy your new player, which should have a better talent to salary ratio. That is how you improve your team and continue to grow. Increasing your weekly income will not help you, that only increases your cap, which will temporarily allow you to add salary again but ultimately it will just further increase the competitiveness of Italian teams as compared to the rest of the world. It would be a short term fix that leads to bigger problems. Taking income away from smaller countries does nothing to help your situation either. All that would do is further delay the time it will take for small countries to reach their caps, and perhaps deflate the economy more. But, deflating the economy limits gains from training, which is how you should be making your money when at the cap, so it would be a net gain of zero for you.

So, if you aren’t winning your league when at the cap, you need to be training for profit and looking at ways to improve your team’s effectiveness within the amount of salary you have available, but if you have the best talent to salary ratio in your league, and manage your team well, you will be in first place.

But as I dont see this really as an issue rooted in money, but more an issue of competition, and no im not saying you guys are bad managers or want an easier game, but it just seems to me the real issue here is how to have teams running at their caps, but still not feeling like they are locked in stone without a way to get out. At least thats as best as I can describe what ive read.

that is exactly how i see it.

but as far as i see it , its meant to be like this , the part i dont understand is why they think there disadvantaged on the market , the reason they have less money is because they already have bought/trained great players , and that is clearly not a disadvantage.

Players with great salary/skills ratio on the GE often doesn't have the same value paid on the TL when I had to sell them

Follow my reasoning:
When I had to manage my economic situation near the cap,I had to use some kind of compromises choosing between primary and secondary skills in a player,and I have to chose how to distribute the cap among all my players.I can chose to have 9 great players,with the risk of being short if someone is in bad shape or injured,or I can chose to have 11 middly weaker player,if I want to make some money in the cup or I want to have no troubles with the injures.It depends from many factors:pick in draft,favourable moment on the market,lucky in cup draw and so on
Also when I had to chose the skills of my player,I have to do a compromise.For example,I can chose to buy a PG with a good JS/Jr but a pitiful IS,or to buy a player with worse JS/JR but respectable IS(assuming they have the same defence,passing for example),probably with lower salary.Assuming that I chose the second player

Do you agree till that point?Ok,now come to the second part of my reasoning
If I want to make some market in this situation,I have to sell some of my players.I decide to sell my PG.The problem is that at this point,the choice that I made in the previous time,I don't know how it would be appraised on the market.When the buyers will see my players,they will see more at the JS/JR combination than at the value in IS,so the great salary/skill ratio that I find,will be appraised with few money,in comparison to the player with high JS/JR and pitiful IS.
And you surely now that the way a skill is appraised on the marke change drammatcally between various countries and various users,.For example we think that handling has a lower value,than you think.So,if some player is similar to mine,but have worse IS but better handling,he could be appraised by you with an higher price and you would chose him.Or you could not see inside skill at all and pay him a stil lesser price.The fact that the others users can be right or wrong to appraise the mix of primary and secondary skills,count,a lot of horrible players with only driving and handling high,fast to train with 1 vs 1,were sold with high price also if they have no value on the field

So,the first fact is that,for some kind of players(high secondaries but lower primaries),it's really difficult to estabilish a correct price,so we really don't know what would be the amount of money that we will have then to act on the market,because of the various factors.And,especially in a deflaction moment,you can have very bad surprises also on good players

The second fact,is that we weaken our team when we sell our players,so we have an higher risk to lose games and consequentely money from the arena and merchandise during the time we search for some new player,so we have to be very careful when we decide to make this kind of moves.We could lose some unexpected games,so losing position in our league standings that could be crucial at the end

(continue...)

(continue....)

The third problem is to find a player that can fit with your cap strategy,and to find him as soon as possible to not leave for too time your team in a weaker condition(that I want to remember,means less wins and so less incomes).So,you have ti find the best player possible,in short time,with strong limitation about what you can do.I can't simply buy the stronger player that I find,because I have to appraise his salary/skill ratio,I can understand if I can afford him,and I have to understand what could be my perspectives for the future.If I'm a team at the middle of the ranking,and I have to chose if buy a center with 60k of salary and a center with 40k of salary,I have to understand what could be my future results.20k/week doesn't seem much in the weekly balance,but I have to evaluate what is the way he would improve my results.If with the 60k center I could be promoted,I will spend my money for him,because the major expenses in his maintainance would be soon rewarded,but if i know that I can't be promoted soon,I have to chose the 40k salary center,because 20k/week aren't few for a team who act near the cap.

This is the path that we have to do to make some market,we are tied up to a lot of things,lot of evalutaions to do,lucky,moments,ability of the other managers(because they have to spend money to allow us to do some market) and so on

The only thing you have to do to act on the market is to wait to have the money and then spend them in the way that you want,because you have a lot of cap space

We are disadvantaged on the market,because while you to make some market move have only to estabilish your budget and wait until you will have that money because of the low competition in your league,we have to go through a lot of difficulties to reach the same sum of money that you can easily have,and we could have to pay a lot of consequences that you don't have to raise the money...and the thing we miss more is the completely lack of safety on our planning,because while we make a lot of work to reach a certain sum of money to buy a player,someone that doesn't give any value to the money he had because every week can earn a lot(weak competition in his country),could outbid the player that we need in a certain moment and that we appraise with the "right value",with the possibility of change drammatically the destiny of our team

All your "disadvantages" and lack of safety are not because of the economy, but the number of competitive users in the country and that will not change. All your purchases are connected to the relative buying power of your division, if some manager from smaller country overpays for a player and you cant get him, well neither can anyone in your division. It only matters what player you can buy compared to your rivals.

Your team is already better then the teams from the same divisions and even most of higher divisions of smaller countrys and even a slightly bigger team salary cap. Naturally they make more profit because they have weaker players and can outbid the teams who operate near salary cap they can afford. Now i haven't read all the novels in this thread but as i understand you basicly want more money for you or less money for smaller country teams to even out the buying power. Well that would mean you want to sustain significantly higher salary cap than other leagues preventing them to ever catching up, how is that in any shape fair? Not only that but because of the level and activity of your managers they will make the purchases to keep up with the competition, hit the cap again and we are back to square one, only you will already have a huge advantage and the smaller leagues would still outbid you.

There is no economic solution to what you are talking about because there is no such problem. The problem you have is you have to compete against lots of good managers, the only way the playing field would be level if there would be one global league and let's face it would be ridiculous.

everything you have just said is the normal problems for every team in buzzerbeater when trying to upgrade a player.

the only reason small countries have it easier at the moment is that have not hit there salary caps.

again how do you not get this.