BuzzerBeater Forums

BB België > klaagmuur

klaagmuur

Set priority
Show messages by
This Post:
00
6831.529 in reply to 6831.528
Date: 1/19/2013 4:39:53 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
471471

it's usable at all lvls tbh. In Div IV and III, you have trainee's with OD lvl 6-7 on the bigs. Their OD is enough for it to work. At II and BBBL lvl, you'd probably required OD 10-12 on the bigs for it to work really well. That is also the reason why most NT's nowaday's are replacing there C's by PF's. Not only are PF's harder to defend with their JS, HA and DR, but the small trade off in ID, RB and SB that you make, can be made up for by playing a succesfull 2-3 zone. And the bonus is that if your PF happens to have a decent JR, you can use him in the Princeton attack aswell.

So where as 5 seasons ago, The things deciding good teams from the less good where the teams with Passing PG's ( OD, HA DR and PA) and high attacking bigs ( high IS), Nowaday's, it's PG's with OD, HA, DR, PA, IS and preferably ID, with instead of having the C's with high IS, it's now PF's with less IS but more JS, HA and DR.

It's pretty realistic. just think of it. Dwight Howard ( Lakers C) if a big guy, but isn't very good at defending jumpshots (not great OD). Chris Bosh (PF) is much better in defending jumpshots (so better OD) and better in making jumpshots, but isn't that strong on the inside.

If you put Bosh vs Howard in a game, you'll see that Howard will dominate inside play ( in scoring defending and rebounding). Bosh will try to pull Howard away from the ring to take a jumpshot since his defense isn't very good at that...

Problem is, in BB, Bosh is gonna beat Howard 9 out of 10 times in a game. In Reality, Howard is gonna beat Bosh 9 times out of 10. The reason is simple: Howard is taller and thus makes it hard for Bosh to defend him inside. he'll try to push Howard away from the ring on attack too, to force him to pass or take a shot from futher away.

The problem with BB, is that it doesn't take the height of a player into account. Just imagen. You put a player 1 ( 221cm, IS 10, ID 10, RB 10) vs player 2 ( 198 cm, IS 13 ID 13 RB 13)r. In BB, player 2 will dominate player 1 ( assuming neutral tactics in attack and defense) both on attack and on defense. However, in reality, the difference in height makes player 1 much to strong for player 2 to apply decent defense. Give the ball to player 1 down low in the post, and he's practically walk over player 2 ( Player 2 will have to try and push player 1 away, but with such a height difference, chances are that player 1 weights more than player 2 and thus that becomes a nearly impossible task).

In BB, the players height only affects the trainingspeed. In Reality, it does much more. It would be very hard to implement the heightfactor in determinating rebounding etc. But because that is the fact, you'll see that guards with IS combined with a bunch of PF's will beat teams with normal guards and C's without secundairies. Just look at most NT's nowaday's. 5 seasons back, they had 400-500k Monster C's ( all primairies). Nowaday's, salary is much lower because you need good secundairies... You rarely see a C with more than 300k on NT's nowadays. Most of the large communities got PF's on their teams now.

As much as we like BB to be realistic, it's damn hard to replicate the real world into a Game. Imo, they've done pretty very well. But if they change the GE, they'll be improving some things at the costs of others. It's a trade off the Devs have to evaluate.

A change in the GE also gives large communities an advantage. Those communities have more players, with different builds. So they can addapt to changes much faster than mid-size or small communities.

So if you want to use the outside tactic, it's time to find what skills the bigs need for it to work well. i reckon a high Passing, JS, JR and secundairly HA and DR on the bigs would be required ( hey, that sounds like the description of a PF...) But untill someone makes a JS 14 JR 13 big and test it out, we won't know if that is what you need to make the outside tactic work...


This Post:
00
6831.530 in reply to 6831.529
Date: 1/20/2013 7:58:55 AM
Kelmis Spartans
BBBL
Overall Posts Rated:
154154
Second Team:
Eupen Scythe
I agree about player's height. Since it only affects player training, the GE only takes stats into account.

I also understand why most teams are now going for PF's instead of C. But isn't a little too sad if your starting 5 was down to 5 SF with only little difference ?

If the game is fine right now with PG or SG full of IS, so let it be. But then, it should also be possible to play outside with the right inners. As you say, perhaps high PA, JS, HA and DR should be enough. I understand these kind of players are quite rare on the transfer list, thus making it difficult (and expensive) to test, but right now I'm wondering if it would work out. I got an inner with such stats, and while he totally rocks on an inside play, I'm not quite sure about his outside play.

BTW, when playing outside, why is now princeton better than motion ? I have been playing motion often, and don't like slow tactics, thus princeton is quite unkwown to me. R&G I have forgotten since a long time, alas this is also an "old" tactic :(

This Post:
11
6831.531 in reply to 6831.530
Date: 1/21/2013 12:21:00 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
471471
with all the PF's being trained, people prefer to opt for Princeton than Motion.

If you got a PF with good JS/DR/HA and decent JR for a PF. you could play him at the PF and play princeton. In Princeton, the PF moves more to the outside (closer to the 3pt line). this, if your opponent play's man to man, and you play Princeton, your opponents PF needs OD or he's going to get dominated. everyone gots the PG's and SG's and most have SF's. But PF's with good OD remain rare and thus form a match-up that you'll want to exploit if you got the player for it.

Futhermore, since most teams play LI, some opponents dare play 2-3. what is better than having 3 guy's shooting from long distance? right, it's 4 guy's shooting from close to the down town area. That is why if a team play's outside nowadays, it's princeton that they use. The PF's got the Passing to pass the ball around. they got the JS to put up a shot. they got the HA/DR combo which influences the quality of the shot and to some degree, they got JR too. Thus, Princeton works now, where as it didn't work very well 6 seasons back because hardly any team had the players to use it correctly.

This Post:
00
6831.532 in reply to 6831.531
Date: 1/21/2013 12:25:18 PM
Kelmis Spartans
BBBL
Overall Posts Rated:
154154
Second Team:
Eupen Scythe
Very useful information, thanks for letting me know !

I didn't perfectly understood the importance of the PF in this case, and didn't know what the required qualities were.

This Post:
00
6831.533 in reply to 6831.532
Date: 1/22/2013 2:47:36 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
66
And after the injuries, my coach makes the strangest decisions ever in my last game :')
Playing centers at the point guard and guards at the center... Letting my stars sit on the bench for most parts of the game, this way I allowed 43 points in de second quarter...
To give you guys an idea about how awful that is... I allowed only 78 points per game before this match up... Gogo Game Engine, you make so much sense :')

This Post:
00
6831.534 in reply to 6831.533
Date: 1/22/2013 4:01:06 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
471471
GE sometimes makes strange decisions...

i lost the first game of the season. up by 21 at the start of Q4 and had to make a buzzer to go to overtime. Opposing team goes on a run and coach did nothing till my team was up by 2 or 3 points before bringing the starters back... I sometimes wonder if the GE hasn't got written in it's code somewhere to just screw over a team just for the fun of it. like one game per 1000 games that it runs on that day.

I've seen insane comebacks ( the most impressive one was of LoD in the B3 where he needed 40 seconds to erase a 10 point deficit and force overtime to then win the game). I've seen teams lead for 47 minutes and then lose the game. I've seen teams give up 35 point leads, which is just unrealistic. And i've seen results where i know that just isn't possible.

If the Antwerp Giants would play any NBA team ( even the Bobcats!) it's still a 100% certain loss. Yet every now and then, i see a result that looks as if the Giants could beat a NBA team...

This Post:
00
6831.535 in reply to 6831.534
Date: 1/22/2013 4:21:05 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
66
True, I got that same feeling!
I've seen some sick comebacks already! And my team started playing well all of a sudden in the last Quarter, even when the other team's starters we're on the court, my team kept on playing better...
Don't really see why, but ah well... No Home court advantage in the play offs then :o

This Post:
00
6831.536 in reply to 6831.535
Date: 1/29/2013 2:10:49 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
66
Ok this is what the options are:

OR the game engine hates me and lets 'Let coach decide' fail on purpose

OR the game engine is just messing that up in general...

The only thing I know is that my Centers are playing Guard and vice versa for 2 of my last 3 games now and that both of those matches were really important.
This is just really annoying...

This Post:
00
6831.538 in reply to 6831.537
Date: 1/29/2013 3:15:37 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
66
Usually let the coach decide works, fills in the players where they're needed...
Worked for me in the past, but all of a sudden... No luck :')

This Post:
00
6831.539 in reply to 6831.538
Date: 2/2/2013 10:20:56 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
33
7 PG's 1PF en 1C....pfff

Advertisement