BuzzerBeater Forums

Saw it and already voted for the proposal.
I like the idea to manage a second team. It will allow me to be competitive with one team, and to try several things with the other team which can't be combined with being a competitive team.
If the proposal will be accepted (and I assume it will), I will have to rethink my future with KV Forever.

I think this is turning BB into a pay-to-win game.

Although restriction are quite logical, needless to say that smaller countries will be overtaken by foreign managers. Any capable manager from a bigger country will easily overthrow local managers from smaller one easily, leading those one to even quitting the game.

Farming might become quite an issue, where secondary team will be home of NT monsters in order to keep them into the game.

Willing to save numbers in BB is good, but the way they're doing this isn't. If i were them I'd spend time trying to make BB playable on even more platforms than it is now, so that it attracts a greater number of NEW players.

My 2 cents. As I'm no supporter though, I didn't vote on this one.

I agree with Joe: I can't see how you would gain a big advantage (pay to win) with the criteria/conditions mentioned by BB-Marin. It will add fun to those with supporter, but advantage? No.
And like him, I felt "obligated" to take supporter just looking at the time i spend on the game (which will be about 1/10th of the time Joe is spending :p )

It might become an issue for smaller countries that their forum is being 'overtaken' by other nationalities and thus English will become the common language.
We, as Belgians, are familiar with this issue and we have adapted, but there might be some more resistance in other countries.

I think this is turning BB into a pay-to-win game.

Although restriction are quite logical, needless to say that smaller countries will be overtaken by foreign managers. Any capable manager from a bigger country will easily overthrow local managers from smaller one easily, leading those one to even quitting the game.

Farming might become quite an issue, where secondary team will be home of NT monsters in order to keep them into the game.

Willing to save numbers in BB is good, but the way they're doing this isn't. If i were them I'd spend time trying to make BB playable on even more platforms than it is now, so that it attracts a greater number of NEW players.

My 2 cents. As I'm no supporter though, I didn't vote on this one.

i agree 100%

to many problems will arise. If the secundairy teams are allowed to TL players with the primairy teams, how would u feel if u are trying to buy a player and the secundairy team comes and snatches that player away? without the secundairy teams, u would have gotten ur stud. now u are missing out on him.

Futhermore, it created to many cheating problems. Say manager in nation A has a second team in nation B, and manager in nation B has a secundairy team in nation A. 2 managers agree to send cash from there secundairy teams to the primairy teams of the other manager. it's going to be fun for a GM to determine weither they knew about eachother team or not. (not to mention, let's say Dartreb and Joe have a feud. Dartreb has some friends in other nations, who deliberately overpay players from Joe's team. if 2 of them say: we had a deal with Joe that his second team would help out our primairy teams, but he didn't respect it. are u seeing what kind of a headache that would bring? (there is currently 1 BBBL manager who has faced such a problem in the past! and it does occure sometimes). imagen the GM handling the case. u got a couple of guy's saying he was in for the deal, and the owner denying it. What course of action do you take? all u have are the words of a couple of individual managers to go forth on.

economies of primairy teams will be influenced too. say u are in a division now, with half bots. u are always at the top of your division then. suddenly, u get overwhelmed with foreign secundairy teams. u start losing games. u aren't top of your division anymore, and thus lose out cash (arena income) that you would have gotten normally. In the BBBL and II divisions in Belgium, this isn't likely going to happen. but it could be the case in III and IV, and that won't be fair (nor fun) for those managers and they are an important part of our community too.

and i agree with the statement that if it does happen, that many non supporters will quit the game. they'll consider being at a disadvantage and it's not worth it if u lose more active managers who can't afford supporter.

The only way to make this work, is by creating a parrallel server. but then the supporters won't be encouraged as much to join it. it's just having 2 BB teams who have nothing to do with eachother... not to mention, several would ditch 1 team for that second team since it's more succesfull. Hence, u would split the community that is shrinking into 2 seperate communities, which won't do anyone any good. (and a supporters only server will be pretty dull...) And the costs of a parrallel server would most likely be to high for it to be worth the investment...

i love BB, i'd love to see it expand, but i fear this isn't a good idea. It could potentially get more revenue. But i fear that many more active managers would be lost. this would then result in less fun, so less incentive to buy supporter.

So all things considered, i really don't think this is a good idea. but i don't have a good counter idea, so i've decided not to critize it (for now). i'll need some time to think this one through, but as it stands now, i'm not in favor of that idea.

first quote:

that 1 more team have the potential to drive the prize up. I'll refer to Obira on this, considering that such a case made him miss out of Steven Ballaert. he had sold a couple of players to get Ballaert, and missed out on him because a cheater got him. the consequence was that he lost more games than he would have had he gotten ballaert or still had his old players.

second quote:
it already is the case. i won't deny it. however, adding secondairy teams will increase the amount of times such a thing will occure. so yes, i'm against something like that, especially since it's likely to increase cheating cases (and more importantly, it will mean GM's have to make tough decisions based upon little evidence. it doesn't occure often atm, but secundairy team will make it a much more regular thing...

3rd quote:
u pay for supporter for your first team. the second team is then optional. hence, u pay supporter for your first team, not to get a second team (or not necessairily atleast). Futhermore, losing cash on your second team has no implications to your first team. u can drop a second team any time you want, u just have to wait to get a new one for 14 weeks if you do drop it.

So the second teams don't stand to lose anything. And if it's 4 managers vs 1 primairy team, who do you think the GM's are going to believe? especially if all 4 cough up the same story. I'll stress again, such a case has happened in Belgium already, to a current BBBL team. i'll let that team come forth if they want to and dive into the details then. but untill then, it remains a possibility. Now, it's hard to do because u can only own 1 team, so u stand to lose your own team (or teams, if u have multiple, but no smart cheater will want to bring that attention to his teams risking to lose em... with a secundairy team, u stand to lose less). if u make teams pay for having a second team, then they'd have something to lose. (so regardless of being a supporter or not, if you let em pay to have a second team, then yes i would agree with it. since then the manager of the second team stands to lose something if he doesn't follow the rules)

4th quote:
well, not immediately. but 2 seasons in the lower division and you are certain to promote out of it, if u invest your cash wisely and train correctly, something which any current first division manager and most second division managers of large nations, could do. so yes, i do consider it to be an impact. i know many managers capable of that. within 4 or 5 seasons, u could be in II (or I, considering that it will most likely happen to smaller communities)

5th quote:
concerning the advantage: i consider a second team it to be an advantage. if you don't, that is your own oppinion, but i think many will share the oppinion that a second team would be an advantage. This game exists because people enjoy it. because some people (supporters) give a little cash to be able to enjoy the game. but that fun is generated by both supporters and non supporters. eliminate the non supporters, and the fun would drastically decrease (atleast for me it would. the majority of the guy's i know in BB are non supporters). I'm not sure i'd want to play BB without the others to enjoy it with. So yes, supporters are important, but don't dismiss the importance of the non supporters. they provide other things that BB needs aswell.

anyhow, to each idea there are pro's and contra's. we can discuss about it endlessly, i've only looked at it from a negative point of view, because i like how BB is now. i don't feel the need for changes. but sometimes, change is necessairy. given enough time, i might actually warm up to the concept, but for now, i'm not in favor of it because it leaves to many loop holes. it's just my personal view upon it. and i'll ignore that last sentence of yours, since i already said i'd love expansion, but that i don't think this is the way to do it.

"Not possible, as explain in the first message of BB-Marin. You wouldn't be allowed to buy belgian players (in your case)."

Oh, John Smith, NT manager of randomcountry, I will take your player in my team, while you will take trucmuche, do we have a deal ?

I don't think this will be a regular issue, I just say it might happen, and this goes backwards to all what has been done in order to fight fram teams lately.

"If all the users for who 40$ is just like one more drunken evening were supporter, the game would be much better for everyone. But "why paying if I can play for free, without any disadvantage compared to my opponents?". Just because 40$ is nothing for you, but very important for the game, and because you love it.

When I think about the time I spend on this game, I would feel very guilty if I don't give anything in return. Maybe i'm just too honest..."

I really don't know how I should take that ... I will simply avoid answering angrily because I don't think you wrote that on purpose. So based on the time I spend on BB I should feel guilty because I'm not paying for it. OK, call me a thief then. (Although with all the advertisement I've been eating since I started playing I can tell you that I have paid dearly enough !) I really don't believe you write that ... whatever.

Having been reading the thing better and after reading some of your answers, maybe it's worth a try. No idea. I just have the feeling I can't think of all the consequences, and therefore am unable to judge whether it's a good thing or not.

@Joe, Polle, AZ, and all other supporters : in which country would you like your second team ? If I had to choose, I'd probably pick up France (or Luxembourg).

@Joe, Polle, AZ, and all other supporters : in which country would you like your second team ? If I had to choose, I'd probably pick up France (or Luxembourg).

good question.

i'd could go with a number of nations. it would most likely be Australia, England, Japan or Ghana. it would be a nation in BB that i would have had ties with, that at the very least or where a couple of my BB pall would end up.. if they'd all go to one community, i might follow them there. They guy's who have supporter who i have a good relationship on BB would come from England, Netherlands, Frence, Spain, Canada, USA and Australia. if a group of them goes to one middle sized or small community, then i'll follow them since i'd be able to challenge them there. considering we are all playing in different BB nations (the only supporters in Belgium with whom i have regular contact are Joe & Angi. i can meet them in the BBBL so no need to go where they would go to :P)