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2) The difference of effect between 1 ST and 2 ST on a trainee not being pulled at the end of games is very limited.

If this is true, then it is because you are using CPfDC instead of SFDC. Pitiful Stamina (2) is absolutely enough to get 48+ with a lot of tactics combinations, using SFDC. Maybe not with RnG+FCP, I haven't tried that combo yet.

If your objective is to get a player 48 minutes in a single game, SFDC is the optimal choice.

3) Even if I trained him to 4 or 5 stamina (like Sid does when he gets trainees), would have this prevented him from fouling out?

Probably not. Experience, matchups and tactics plus aggresiveness would also need to be considered. But training him once in stamina would have probably allowed you to play him 48 minutes in the games where he didn't foul out, utilizing SFDC. 4 or 5 stamina would help his contribution to match ratings, but isn't necessary to reach 48 minutes.

are you sure you are prepared to manage a team with many 8 and 9 stamina players?

Yes, but if it happens it will be because I purchased them at that level, not because I spent 3 weeks training stamina for players who didn't need it to reach 48 minutes. I've trained Stamina one time in roughly 2 seasons, in a week where I had only 2 games.

Your willingness to play trainees a full 48 minutes should make training easier, not harder. The effects of GT is something you can plan to avoid, or you can use it as a guaranteed 11-13 minute block for anyone that needs it. I find GT to be a very useful tool for balancing trainee and non-trainee minutes alike.

If this is true, then it is because you are using CPfDC instead of SFDC.

Nope, you can ask your fellow american hrudey who has mentioned above a trainee with 2 ST who gets pulled irrespective of garbage time. Besides my trainee before hitting 1 and staying there for at least a season and a half was at 2 ST and even then he was getting pulled. CPfDC and SFDC have different results on minutes but that's about that. I do use SFDC in cup or scrimmage games when I have to get precise splits and I don't remember making any difference back then (believe me: I tried everything I could to prevent him from getting pulled for those last 30 seconds in the games where he did not foul out).

Some Australian managers mentioned they did some research on this and as a rule of thumb they established that, somewhere between 4 and 5 stamina, trainees stop being subbed out. So 2 isn't really enough (although it gives a nice boost performance-wise). As I said before, it's not guaranteed that 1 or 2 ST trainees get substituted: it may happen to such trainees, depending on other factors such as pace of the game and the level of the rest of the team. For example what if a 1 stamina trainee is one of the best players on the court (because the others are even worse)?

The effects of GT is something you can plan to avoid, or you can use it as a guaranteed 11-13 minute block for anyone that needs it. I find GT to be a very useful tool for balancing trainee and non-trainee minutes alike.

Of course disagree about the 'effects' of GT since I think GT is not the cause of trainees getting substituted, but I completely agree on the rest. The more balanced (e.g. 28-20) minute splits you get with garbage time are invaluable for GS management, so there is really no reason not to go for it.

Last edited by Lemonshine at 8/15/2015 2:19:55 PM

Nope, you can ask your fellow american hrudey who has mentioned above a trainee with 2 ST who gets pulled irrespective of garbage time.

I must have missed that. Can you quote it for me?

Of course disagree about the 'effects' of GT since I think GT is not the cause of trainees getting substituted, but I completely agree on the rest.

The GT message displays, and immediately at the next stoppage all starters in the game head to the bench and stay there. They are pulled because of their status as a starter, it has nothing to do with stamina at that time or their status as a "trainee". The GE has no idea who you are going to train and what that training will be. You can disagree all you want but you really couldn't be more wrong.

Now, if your trainee is pulled at some point after the wholesale substitions take place, then it is either a stamina issue, or the game is no longer judged to be out of reach by the coach/GE.

Using SFDC, there is a direct correlation between the GT message and all starters getting substituted, simultaneously. That's what garbage time is. There are ways to prevent certain players from being substituted through active roster and lineups but the effect itself is unmistakable otherwise we wouldn't have all independently developed the same strategy for subverting it.

I have to ask, are you a native English speaker? Have you watched sporting events in real life? Is the phrase garbage time something you never heard before playing this game?

From the Wiki,https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garbage_time
Garbage time, also known as "junk time", is a term used to refer to the period toward the end of a timed sporting event that has become a blowout when the outcome of the game has already been decided, and the coaches of one or both teams will decide to replace their best players with substitutes.[1] This serves to give those substitutes playing time experience in an actual game situation, as well as to protect the best players from the possibility of injury.[2]

How can you say that Garbage Time has no effect on substitutions, when substitutions, specifically nonstarters for starters, are literally by definition the thing that signals it has begun?

Last edited by Harold Miner at 8/15/2015 3:13:31 PM

Sometimes the starters are pulled even if there is no mention of GT, but it's clear that it's garbage time.

Now, if your trainee is pulled at some point after the wholesale substitions take place, then it is either a stamina issue, or the game is no longer judged to be out of reach by the coach/GE.

Yes this is exactly what we were discussing about.

How can you say that Garbage Time has no effect on substitutions, when substitutions, specifically nonstarters for starters, are literally by definition the thing that signals it has begun?

Sorry, I never meant to express such an opinion if I ever did. I tried to explain that to in my experience Garbage Time has no direct impact on trainees being substituted in the last few minutes of a game, because it's a combination of other factors (which may indeed appear simultaneously in GT) which also appear in normal games (with no GT).

I know exactly what garbage time means in real life...there might be a possibility you slightly misunderstood what was being discussed (i.e. not garbage time itself, but why trainees sometimes cannot finish games and getting 48+ minutes).

I must have missed that. Can you quote it for me?

2 posts above your first post, mate. (272865.49)

MI had a trainee in Utopia (32699067) who frequently had 47 minutes (or occasionally 46) in non-garbage time games despite all the other stuff being correct, and the guy coming in to replace him was not significantly better by any stretch, but his stamina was just so low

Last edited by Lemonshine at 8/15/2015 4:17:03 PM

I know exactly what garbage time means in real life...there might be a possibility you slightly misunderstood what was being discussed (i.e. not garbage time itself, but why trainees sometimes cannot finish games and getting 48+ minutes).

My mistake.

I was looking (obviously not closely enough) at the discussion in the context of the OP not understanding why his player got subbed even though he was listed as starter, backup, and reserve. I didn't see anything wrong with SCCavsfan's initial post in its entirety, but I didn't see the misinformation angle of Phyr's comments about SCCavsfan's opening statement since blowouts lead to GT and GT means starters being replaced with available non-starters. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

I also went back and looked and I had an awful stamina guy pulled in the 48th minute of a 131-66 LI/M2M win for another starter.

I'll just go back to lurking now.

No worries, I hope I didn't offend you and you keep participating. I think it's always positive when new guys intervene in a discussion.

47 Minutes = 90%
46 Minutes = 81%
45 Minutes = 72%
44 Minutes = 65%
43 Minutes = 58%

Do you have anything like this for Single Position vs. Double Position??

Should be the same.

I mean more in terms of...

1 pos - 100%
2 pos - ... 90%?
3 pos - ...70%?

It's not exact but I use the coefficient page of the training simulator to get a quick idea. You can also still access the data of the training project which the simulator is based on: http://training.bb-usa.net/