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U21 National Team Debate Thread (thread closed)

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From: Panic
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199844.54 in reply to 199844.22
Date: 11/2/2011 3:58:48 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
5656
Couple questions for every candidate:
1. Let's say you start with 12 players on the roster. How do you plan on choosing those 12 players?
2. Name two goals for your term that don't include: win the Americas, win the Worlds or avoid repechage.
3. Lets assume you had two of the best big men in the world. Give me two ways you could try to get their managers to stay in good GS?

Rambo- my number 4 answer is below the initial post.

1. With the initial players, I would pick not just talent, but GS. Good players are only effective in good GS. If a manager can't keep a guy on the bubble of making the team in good GS, I'll be more likely to pick someone with GS I can trust.

Talent wise, I would look for flexible players in terms of what they can play, whether it be inside or outside. If we have enough adequate guards, I might lean towards a certain number of those players so that I can play them in a certain tactic if need be. Another important thing for me is potential. If they have room to grow during the season, I'll be more apt to pick them over someone that could cap earlier.

2. A couple goals for my term would be 1. To increase community involvement. An active community is a much better breeding ground for good players and good discussion on tactics before a game., and 2. To encourage safe building of players for club teams. Our managers with long term prospects (HoF NT possibilities) would be much better suited to hold onto their players after becoming U21ers. A goal for me if elected would be to work with them to make players that are not only effective at the U21 level but able to be kept in the States after they turn 22.

3. Bribes. :) Otherwise, I would stress how important to his team keeping the player in good GS would be. Players play better across the board with good GS, and it would be bad for both club and country to be in below average GS.

From: ipsonj
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199844.55 in reply to 199844.53
Date: 11/2/2011 4:00:54 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
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Question for all candidates:

What is your vote on Rambo's approval rating? (Did you approve of him or not)

Did you ever change your vote on him?

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199844.56 in reply to 199844.51
Date: 11/2/2011 4:01:08 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
5656
I have attempted in the past to be a proponent of PTB and if possible, may want to use it in a U21 game if need be.

From: Panic

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199844.57 in reply to 199844.55
Date: 11/2/2011 4:03:12 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
5656
My vote was yes, and it stayed yes. Nothing Rambo did during his tenure even made me question my approval of him. Was he perfect? No. However, you can't argue with our country's first Worlds win of anything. He did a lot of things well and it worked out well for everyone involved in the end.

From: Isaiah

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199844.58 in reply to 199844.55
Date: 11/2/2011 4:09:01 PM
Smallfries
II.1
Overall Posts Rated:
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Second Team:
Smallfries II
My vote for Rambo was yes from the beginning because I knew he had what it took to win akd he proved it. Had he messed up i would have changed it to no.

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199844.59 in reply to 199844.36
Date: 11/2/2011 4:11:36 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
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Wozz lately has opened a lot of us (at least me) to a lot of what driving can do. I now value it pretty highly depending on the player and the system. Driving isn't necessarily crucial for a 15/14 JS/JR player in Motion.

As to your first question, it'd go: OD/PA/JS/HA/DR/JR, with DR being basically tied with HA. JR is low on the list I guess because all those other skills are crucial, whereas depending on the system, JR isn't absolutely necessary. I have no prejudice against it.

As for a strategy, the game seems to be moving in a direction towards balanced players, and I would aim to build players that are versatile and can do everything well. Eventually, it'd give us tactical flexibility and would allow us to give our opponents absolutely no clue what we'd do.

From: magiker

To: red
This Post:
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199844.60 in reply to 199844.39
Date: 11/2/2011 4:14:04 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
199199
I see a lot of talk, not from every candidate, but in general, about using these niche players, and even one went as far as to say he would not have 2 guys with the same skills on the team. I guess I am pretty much of the opinion, through watching and chatting with Jelme when he was coach, that niche players really serve a very small role on the u21 team. Sure, you might have the scenario where you need one, but generally speaking, they will contribute very little.

Convince me why we need niche players on the u21 team, and how a guy that has better 2ndaries but -3 on the primaries is going to compete with the guy across from him.

If you agree with my line of thinking, explain to me how you would build a team knowing that we would not be adding niche players (again, generally), and that likely we would not need to really hold a spot for such a player.


National teams are way different than club teams. Many people think "niche players" and good secondaries on players are important. I'm going to strongly disagree with that. The more primaries, the better. If you only have a few seasons training a player for U21, we need all that to be primary training. Sure the big with terrible subs is not good for anyone's club team, because you can have a big for the same price with much better subs. But the U21 and NT aren't paying salaries. We need as many primary pops as possible.

I don't really understand this notion of "niche" players. When we look through the pipeline, there are players that are clearly better than others. Merrill, Hammond, Moreland, Felder, Brown, Luther, and Carlson were all clearly better than the other players. That's why they were on the team. Not because they fit a certain offense or system, or had good subs. We'll go through the pipeline and look through the different players. Not that many will have the requisite OD for guards or ID/RB for bigs to play, regardless of subs. But I'll for sure weigh primary skills much more heavily than the others.

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199844.61 in reply to 199844.40
Date: 11/2/2011 4:17:10 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
199199

How do you plan to sacrifice success for your club team for the greater good of the U21 team?


I paid 1.3 mil for a HOF 6'0 18 year old two seasons ago. I have a level 6 trainer and a level 4 doctor just so the dbag doesn't get injured and I lose 2 weeks of training. I do my best to play him only 48 minutes a week, just to lower the chance of injury. I train him in the first game of the week, so in case he fouls out or has an injury, I can play him later in the week.

I obviously don't care all that much about my club team. I find the U21 and NT aspect of the games much more exciting.

This Post:
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199844.62 in reply to 199844.40
Date: 11/2/2011 4:23:23 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
5656
Because the U21 coaching job is such a large responsibility, I would put a lot more time into that than my club team. Besides, my club team seems to be going nowhere again so I'd like to focus on things that actually make me happy. :)

From: magiker

To: Coco
This Post:
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199844.63 in reply to 199844.43
Date: 11/2/2011 4:29:45 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
199199
So, do you think that Rambo made a mistake in having Battle, in addition to B-Rod?


I think the question was referring to an initial roster of 12 players, not the whole team. Rambo called up B-Rod at the start, and Battle later on. I don't mind SF's at all, it's just difficult for them to enough skill points to be effective in 3 seasons. Easier when they get that 4th season of training. But if there are a lot of options there, I'm all for it.

Are you speaking out of experience here or out of speculation?


Speculation.

This is the player (5766859) and he was with me in season 14.

In my experience the specific type of player is not particularly effective (brian tried with something similar too about at the same time and, as I recall, also ended up being skeptical of a certain kind of shooting PF). He will absolutely torch lowly teams, but wouldn't be much better than a regular big man in most other games. In particular see: (25966671)

I am pretty sure that there is a player similar to the player you have in mind that is terrific, but I don't think that player can be very effective with 4 driving...


It's possible you're absolutely right. My PF doesn't have that much JS/JR, so it is pure speculation. But there's a big difference between club teams and U21 teams. The best U21 bigs are usually over 7 feet so they train primaries really quickly for 3 seasons. Those guys usually have very low OD, and defend PF. In general, I'd guess that U21 bigs at PF have way less OD than the guys that defend PF in the NBBA, so I'd assume it'd work better for U21 than the NBBA. But that, is again, just speculation.

Also, this guy isn't realistic in 3 seasons of training, obviously.

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