BuzzerBeater Forums

I wasnt claiming to be offended. I was simply pointing out that it could be construed as offensive. Basically it was the most recent example of belittling comments or insults or whatever you want to call it that people are slipping into their posts in this thread be it intentional or not. I just dont think it's necessary or helpful for discussion. Thats all.

It's not as though the discussion that's ongoing is completely unrelated to the initial posts (all of the discussion about being gay is directly related to the question of how courageous it is to admit it).

Fair enough. Was not trying to "control" the thread. My apologies.

Ok, maybe my response was a bit strong. And I actually didn't take your comment as you yourself being offended; it was more for anyone who who might feel that way.

Is Jason Collins coming out relevant to basketball or is it just relevant to society? Apparently it triggered a lengthy discussion between random people on the internet on a fake basketball simulation game website, so I'd say thats proof its relevant to society. Is Jason Collins a relevant basketball player, of course not, but I don't think that was the question.

Do athletes coming out make any difference? From my own limited HS and college sports experience as a player, sports culture in general harbors more homophobia than other parts of American culture. Maybe if more athletes at all levels come out in might make a difference in combating that.

Well God created the Head Hunter Tribes, murderers, rapists, child molesters, and even Los Angeles Laker Fans....that doesn't mean he is "in support" of them.

Lol +1

Homosexuality is also rampant in the animal kingdom, even among creatures to which we ascribe very little in the way of "choice" in their actions. Certainly the animals aren't picking sex partners with a knowledge of the Bible's teachings. It's instinct in some form. I think we can agree on that.

So it's very common in nature, which would make it "natural" by definition.

We don't have to know the exact gene to observe and understand this.

Although I do agree some people are born with homosexual feelings (acting on those feelings seems to be the issue of the discussion), I don't know think the animal kingdom should be the source of whether something is "natural" or not. If an animal is cannibalistic does that mean that cannibalism is natural?

Does that mean if an animal does this (insert action) then it is "natural" for a human to do so too?

Some animals do some weird stuff? But then again so do some humans...

This has exploded exponentially. As it would have when your in a room with different people.
But instead of wondering if an action of one person is relevant. ..ie the OP question. Instead the bible such has been downgraded by one poster here as some book written thousands of years ago.
Funny. . We think because there were no cell phones, computers,air travel. .. modern comforts that only the extreemly wealthy had (running water). In the first century when the new testament was complete. .. the thing is that if you read what problems the first century Christians had in their time we have now. ... so what they went through and how they overcame difficult situations with the assistance of heavenly inspired men can help us now.The old testament shows how our heavy father felt about this topic. .. he destroyed two cities (Sodom and Gomorah , backed up by archaeological support of where the cities were supposed to be. )
In the New testament based on the lives of first century Christians who has the same problems that we do now. .. the just did not have the tech we do now. . But the same issues. .. on how to carry ourselves.
But people want to know how God felt about the issue if you wish to dismiss my Sodom and Gomorah reference. This is what people today cannot accept because it deals with how we live, and simply put many people don't like to be told how to live.
Look in your own copy of the bible if you have one...I respectfully ask all you to read Leviticus 20:13 and there will be no question on how God feels on the matter.
I will not say anything more on this matter. Bash me if you will. .... but it is not me you are bashing.

Last edited by BarryS at 5/1/2013 8:01:38 AM

Oh, for crying out loud.

In the New testament based on the lives of first century Christians who has the same problems that we do now. .. the just did not have the tech we do now. . But the same issues. .. on how to carry ourselves.
But people want to know how God felt about the issue if you wish to dismiss my Sodom and Gomorah reference. This is what people today cannot accept because it deals with how we live, and simply put many people don't like to be told how to live.
Look in your own copy of the bible if you have one...I respectfully ask all you to read Leviticus 20:13 and there will be no question on how God feels on the matter.

Leviticus is from the Old Testament (which is utterly filled with wonderful suggestions on "how to live," as you put it), but not from the New Testament. Look in your own copy of the bible if you have one...I respectfully ask you to find a single mention of homosexuality outside of the book of Leviticus.

Last edited by darykjozef at 5/1/2013 9:20:14 AM

Bro. I'm a Christian too, and I tend to agree with you on the issue. But seriously, stop. Your arguments are not compelling and you're making us look bad. There is no question at this point as to what the Bible says, people are questioning the reliability of it. What you're saying isn't making any sense, you're making wild points all over the place.

My take? I. Do. Not. Care. I'm ashamed for the fact that this is a big news story.Whatever Jason Collins' sexual preference is, I don't care to hear it. I won't treat you any differently. And if we were really a "progressive forward thinking society" this shouldn't be a big deal. But it's been made into a big deal. I can appreciate and understand the fear and shame these people go through because of their sexuality, especially in the sports industry, but I don't think anyone wants to bash Collins here.

Am I for homosexuality? No. My faith dictates that it's wrong. Do I treat homosexuals as less than equal or shun them? Absolutely not. While I may disagree with their lifestyle, the fact is they're still people just like me and deserve to be treated the same without prejudice. So I conclude by saying again, that I could not care less. My opinion makes zero difference, and to be honest, it's none of my business. It's between Collins, whoever he wants to date, his friends and family, and now the ball club because he's decided to involve them in his sexual preference.

Leviticus 18:22(ot)
1 Corinthians 6: 9, 10(nt)
Romans 1: 26-28(nt)
Romans 1:29-32(nt)
Verse 32 will sting alittle

Don't split hairs with me please. ... of I was all over the place I would not have gotten 5 points for joining the conversation, so there are others who may not speak out but agree.
And to the poster right after. ....
If you Believe what is said in the scriptures don't hide at this ground swell of opinion where I have provided a direction on where to find the answer. ... not MY OPINION on the matter.

Um. .. there are more scriptures in Leviticus and Exodus.

Oh you won't find the word homosexuality in the bible but you explain that to the maker when the time comes.

Last edited by BarryS at 5/1/2013 9:58:54 AM

And to the poster right after. ....
If you Believe what is said in the scriptures don't hide at this ground swell of opinion where I have provided a direction on where to find the answer. ... not MY OPINION on the matter.

I don't even understand what you just said.

Don't split hairs with me please. ... of I was all over the place I would not have gotten 5 points for joining the conversation, so there are others who may not speak out but agree.

We're not splitting hairs here. I think there's a consensus here that the Bible condemns homosexuality, there is no question about it. The discussion is centered around the relevancy of the Scriptures, and the practicality of the situation and whether or not Collins should have come out in the way he did.

I asked you to stop earlier because I can't respond to what you're saying. Your grammar and spelling leaves a bit to be desired and I can't understand you. Please respond to the actual discussion that we're having with comments that both contribute to the conversation and are readable, or refrain from commenting. I say this in the kindest possible way, so don't take it personally.

Ah, I see the difference, your reading a newer updated form of the bible, from 1979. Big difference between the that and the original King James bible. Like everything else about religions, they update their rules as they go along.

Here is the original King james version. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+1%3A29...

Romans 1:29-32
King James Version (KJV)
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

and here is the NEW King James revision in 1979 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+1%3A29...

29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality,[a] wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.

It also mentions 2 footnotes.

Romans 1:29 NU-Text omits sexual immorality.
Romans 1:31 NU-Text omits unforgiving.

Having been born in 76 and raised in an old school Catholic home, I can see the discrepancies. I also see they added alot of stuff to the 10 commandments that weren't there originally. And by originally, I mean the 400 year old version, the standard.