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It already made no sense that high stamina players didn't get subbed at all because of their stamina. But now it's even worse since they all get exhausted in the beginning of the 4th. And we've seen how huge the impact of exhaustion is.

This is the number one problem indeed.

A player does not get even a little tired for three quarters and all of a sudden he literally can't move his feet. Parody.

If this lousy implementation is to stay, there are at least three separate prerequisites:

1) Fix substitution patterns in order to have players at starter/backup/reserve compared on their actual efficiency atm.
2) Keep players on court even if they are exhausted in case they have no backup/reserve set.
3) Improve player performance under exhaustion. Right now it looks like after becoming exhausted (!suddenly!) they start being treated as lucky fans. Imo the exhaustion performance level should be based on player skills and not be less than 30% of the maximum values. I'd be happy to elaborate.

If this lousy implementation is to stay

Much better to get rid of it ofc and substitute it with faster and deeper stamina decay, especially at higher stamina levels, possibly accompanied by tiered GS decrease after psychologist based on minutes played in the b3/bbm game.

Besides I'm pretty sure that a:

250k/250k/200k/200k/250k + 100k + 7k + 7k + 7k + 7k short roster

would still beat a:

150k/150k/150k/150k/150k + 125k + 100k + 78k + 100k + 125k roster

under this implementation.


Meaning that it does not actually work at all. It's just that people have not yet figured it out and found ways around it.


@Justin: I'd be happy if you ran some simulations on this and let us know what the results were.

But you see, this is a lot of changes for a person that doesn't like nor want changing the fandamentals of BB.
But I feel like you shouldn't say such things against Marin, who, after all, was basically the only one in charge of BB for a long long time, and im not sure if BB would survive at all without him.

I agree, you are right about that. No matter what, it should not get personal and I apologize for that part of the posts.

On the other game - We see a manager that is trying to overcome the exhaustion effect and he is completely punished for that, this is how 5 players squad will perform(one of his starters was injured early on so he was left with 5 players).

not to mention his 5 players have all 30+ years old.
basketball drains a lot of energy. IRL there is no player getting 48 minutes on a constant basis. actually even 40 minutes is not common at all. tom thibodeau used to play his starters around 40 minutes every game with the bulls, as a result his players were destroyed in the mid term (to name a few: Deng, Noah and the most infamous case of all, Rose). I hate injuries in BB but I might acknowledge that if there was a link in BB between excess of minutes and higher chance of injuries I would say it's logical and realistic (those who enjoy injuries in BB due to being realistic and a challenge couldn't deny this...)

what is not realistic in BB (and never was) is players playing 48 minutes every game. 5-6 player rosters being competitive and winning championships is way less realistic than teams being crushed in the last quarter because their players didn't get a single second of rest in the 3 previous quarters. so far I give exhaustion a big thumbs up

btw I'd go further. I'd establish that after a certain age players cannot play more than a certain amount of minutes. 33 year olds playing 48 minutes? no way. 33 year olds should have a threshold of 34 minutes or something (with max stamina). Even 28 year olds should cap at around 42 minutes. (For the sake of BBness, youngsters of course could play 48 minutes and get training). Managers should be faced with the obligation of having players to fill those minutes their starters won't play.

Last edited by Bernspin at 3/24/2022 4:18:04 PM

Finally someone wrote what I wanted to write and I don't have to bother. Have a +1, thumbs up, orange ball, wharever you want kind sir.

Hi BBs

How am I supposed to play with 9-10 stamina players ?
Can you answer that simple question and/or react to the many postings about the poor implementation of this new exhaustion feature ?

I've tried to "let the coach decide" and to "strictly follow", and each time the subs played only 0-3 min in the first 3 quarters. Then, all of a sudden during the beginning of the 4th qt, all my starters get exhausted ! Either they get subbed by anyone available, or sometimes they keep playing while being quite incapable of scoring... Making it impossible to play with a "normal" lineup in the 4th qt while the playing time could have been easily shared between the 7-9 players I put on my lineup !

Also, how random is the "exhaustion moment" decided ? Because my starters all got exhausted or definitely replaced with around 38-40min played, while my opponent's didn't seem to sweat once playing 45min. How fair and understandable is it ?

I've watched closely my last B3 games and I don't know how to deal with this new issue. Actually, I already know I lost my cup finals tomorrow and probably the playoffs too, given I'll be crushed in each 4th qt.

I let you guess how happy that makes me feel