BuzzerBeater Forums

Now you are being petty. In spite of my disagreements with you over alot of things, i always thought you were at least a decent guy in hattrick and here.

in some ways you have answered my questions for me
5 people discussing tactics is not so good of course. if you do launch a chatroom it would be both welcome and overdue.

As for the infamous patient offense game, i had no intention of winning the game. I set all 4 lineups in advance pre-wedding, and thought that 2 big wins and 2 narrow losses would see me through hopefully on point differential.

patient offense minimizes winning percentage but usually minimizes beatdowns as well. for what it's worth low post and possibly princeton and possibly motion mightve been bigger disasters.

as for tactics, beyond the game you mention (definitely absurd), i feel you are too smart for your own good too often. i think lsat season in non scrimmages you ran base offense once. Every time it was trying to catch teams guessing wrong.

lastly, the south americans being the incident where you got baited because they beat you with a foolish CT. we would have handled that differently. thats all

No offense to you juice, and nominally you do address the responsiveness, but its very much an inner cult of you and a maybe 1-2 other people making the gametime decisions. what good would my input do to sway the minds of you and kdb et al?

We had 5 users (including myself) in the tactics thread on the offsite forum discussing the game, and another 3-4 via other means of communication.

That's certainly not 1-2 people.

2) flatout better tactics. this partially surprises me since i thought you almost helped build the engine. i mean you live near harvard where charles et al created the game engine. I have had to try my best to reverse engineer it, and i havent gotten it 100% right. i will have to watch my games and not just the box scores to track the statistics i truly want to track this year as well. that is a huge disadvantage yet i still feel with equal teams and on a neutral court i could win 55 out of 100 against you. that seems minor but its really huge.

I disagree, of course.

My main question is, in a must win game, why would you use a Patient offense?

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Most any other offense and you probably, IMO, win.

Can you point to a game in these past Worlds besides the Spain game where the tactics were completely ridiculous to use in the first place (and not simply a matter of they used something off the wall)?

3) iffy. from day 1: possibly. from your last 4 matches on, almost assuredly not. you were, as you pointed out, in something of a hole. you went into the germany game a 25-75 dog, and didn't do anything stupid to blow it. i really disliked your call in the semifinals 2 seasons ago with the all big lineup, but it's not my place to criticize given that while i saw almost everything i could (including forums), there may have been factors privy to you only.

That was a risk against a team we felt was superior to us on a talent level, and it still may have worked had we not used Let Coach Decide, and ran Strictly Follow Depth Chart instead. Against Germany in the semis I felt we had a shot if we played well. We had a shot and almost got there.

4) they deserve what they got. Those who know me know i can be feisty. I would certainly have handled the taunting you got from the south americans differently. I really despair a country that doesnt have any real turnout, just as last elections turnout for our senior NT SUCKED. YEt i think the tide is turning in the US. If nothing else it might be worthwhile to check into global. I will be more democratic in general, and more exciting.

The South Americans? Who are they? Does that particular nation still play at the NT or U21 level?

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scouting is our strong suit already i argue. not alot more to be done. blunt and true. id have our trainers maybe shape players differently but thats not truly scouting

as for the activity, make it more exciting, be bolder in statements and trashtalk to the other teams. get all the managers involved. find translators to see what they are posting in the italian forums, etc etc

Thanks for the interesting speech Shot--much more thoughtfully written than some of the others. I have two questions based on your speech, but I'd really be interested in what any of the candidates have to say about these.

#1. Several of you have mentioned scouting. Having worked with Juice on this aspect of the team some, I can tell you that he tracks literally hundreds of players, playing in all leagues around the world. This includes an extensive list of 18yo guys each year to get in touch with managers as early as possible to suggest training strategies that benefit both the NT and their club team. Given the extent of this, how do you think you can improve on the scouting that is currently being done?

#2. Every election there's noise about how to get more involvement, and yet we're always left with the same basic problem: if we rely on an offsite forum, many users just won't visit, and if we rely on these boards, we can't post any real detail, leaving users unable to make informed contributions. Specifically, the things you mention, "taking the input of every USA Manager, by listening to your voice, you can contact me" are passive and certainly already true, so how do you think you can improve involvement given the constraints we face?

2) flatout better tactics. this partially surprises me since i thought you almost helped build the engine. i mean you live near harvard where charles et al created the game engine. I have had to try my best to reverse engineer it, and i havent gotten it 100% right. i will have to watch my games and not just the box scores to track the statistics i truly want to track this year as well. that is a huge disadvantage yet i still feel with equal teams and on a neutral court i could win 55 out of 100 against you. that seems minor but its really huge.

While the BBs do not typically intervene in elections or speeches, I want make sure that everyone understands that none of the GMs (except those who were BBs in the past, and GM-JuicePats was not one of these) has ever seen the code that goes into the site or the game engine, nor do they have an increased understanding of it through their interaction with the BBs.

Does knowledge of the game engine really help? The lack of success of some of the BB's teams....well, maybe I wouldn't go there. :-)

Anyway, moving to Chicago might help more. :-p


Steve
Bruins

FEEL THE BURN!

well coco, its about the potential and the ability to eat salary isnt it?

what the gap betwen superstar and all star is is hard to say (i am guessing 2 levels across the board), but i would train the primary skills till the salary is untenable for the owner, then train shotblocking, then jump shot.

i have a longer answer, but probably best done privately over aim. its to lengthy for here. (training is a very interesting problem for club and nt players)

I didnt check in there much at all this season, and won't post at all if i lose. If i do lose Juice deserves the chance to defend his ideas.

I understand you wouldn't want to step on Juice's toes but that statement seems to me like you just want the title of Coach. While it would be beneficial to allow him to run the team thats what the forums are for disagreements on P.O.V and with out disagreement to stimulate discussion no change or improvement will ever occur.

To Everyone but specifically Shot City:

What do you think is the most disappointing thing about Team USA basketball over the last 8 seasons and what specific instance/game/decision was the most disappointing and why?

That we haven't won the championship, plain and simple.

#1. Several of you have mentioned scouting. Having worked with Juice on this aspect of the team some, I can tell you that he tracks literally hundreds of players, playing in all leagues around the world. This includes an extensive list of 18yo guys each year to get in touch with managers as early as possible to suggest training strategies that benefit both the NT and their club team. Given the extent of this, how do you think you can improve on the scouting that is currently being done?

I really don't think we can - we literally track any viable player and communicate with every owner about training, etc.

I think scouting under me is a well-oiled machine and is pretty much set for now.

#2. Every election there's noise about how to get more involvement, and yet we're always left with the same basic problem: if we rely on an offsite forum, many users just won't visit, and if we rely on these boards, we can't post any real detail, leaving users unable to make informed contributions. Specifically, the things you mention, "taking the input of every USA Manager, by listening to your voice, you can contact me" are passive and certainly already true, so how do you think you can improve involvement given the constraints we face?

The chat room we're going to release soon should drive some interest - people always enjoy real time discussion.

1a- how many USA NT and U21 games have you watched COMPLETELY this past season?

Every NT game, hardly any U21 games.

1a- what USA NT coach's errors have you seen in those games?

A real cluster of a lineup against Spain (ran a default when the lineup came in too late).

1c- in USA NT games, what tactics would you have changed?

Really wish we had played a 3-2 Zone against Germany in the semifinals, but Man To Man was a defensible choice.

2- how many non-USA NT and U21 games have you watched COMPLETELY this past season (estimate if not sure).

50ish, maybe more.

3a- are you a member of the off-site forum? if so, how long have you been a member?

I created it, so late October-early November 2007.

3b- if you are a member, how many posts have you made

1652

3a) been a member/lurker long time. Posted a few times, never got a reply, the site blew up and re invented itself. I didnt check in there much at all this season, and won't post at all if i lose. If i do lose Juice deserves the chance to defend his ideas. The one thing no one can accuse Juice of is incompetence, which is why its an uphill battle. I know I personally and a few others feel that there were mistakes, but hes not a f-up at the level of say... rpeters in hattrick (for those who play that game). Whoever wins deserves the chance to put their philosophy in without people sniping at them over every decision they would make differently.

I completely disagree.

We want ideas and thoughts to come in from all corners, positive or negative.

Criticism is essential to improvement. If one isn't criticized, even harshly if need be, they become complacent and never improve. We need improvement - 2 games improvement, to be exact.

Your statement regarding not posting if I win gives the impression that you're not all that interested in the USA NT unless you win the election. I'm not sure that's what you're trying to achieve.

Finally, whoever gets elected SHOULD be under a microscope - that person represents the 2625 strong USA community on the world stage.

Now you are being petty. In spite of my disagreements with you over alot of things, i always thought you were at least a decent guy in hattrick and here.

How do you figure I'm being petty?

As for the infamous patient offense game, i had no intention of winning the game.

An important part of NT play, given the small number of games in a given round, is to be able to effectively judge whether or not you can win a game, or whether or not you need to win a game.

The 1st Round of the Worlds played out perfectly in that regard:

- Loss to Australia

- Must win against Italy, played a CT and won by 2

- Punted game against Iran as it was not a game that would determine advancement or any 2nd round records

- Beat Morocco on an obvious TIE

- Beat Germany with a Normal and a 2-3 Zone (against advice of many - one of the few times I've done that but I felt was absolutely necessary, and it was) to ensure a 2-1 record for the beginning of the 2nd round. A loss there and the subsequent events leaves us out of the semis.

Also, our last 2nd round game against Argentina was essentially a must-win, but we were able to TIE comfortably.

Would you be able to read the situation for 4-5 games and and possibly beyond and adapt each game plan to that, while adjusting on the fly as other games affect the needs of the USA?

lastly, the south americans being the incident where you gt baited because they beat you with a foolish CT.

Who? Do they even exist? I have no idea who this team is, but I remember about 50 seasons ago when Brazil actually mattered. Maybe this has to do with that, perhaps?

as for the activity, make it more exciting, be bolder in statements and trashtalk to the other teams. get all the managers involved. find translators to see what they are posting in the italian forums, etc etc

Although I prefer the more subtle route (as referenced a few times in this debate with a team in South America that used to be relevant), I'm not a prude either:

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find translators to see what they are posting in the italian forums

We do that already, especially in Italy, as our U21 coach is a native Italian speaker.