BuzzerBeater Forums

man has this game evolved since I was paying attention.
but unless they changed the GE since I stopped paying real atention, I can't realy agree with all that is being said here (for instance big man with OD5 defends a JS12 player => useless is something I can not realy agree with, it's a simplistic view, and there's so many more factors deciding the outcome of the shot besides the OD5 and JS12). Some details are missing in the current views, important ones however.
It would realy surprise me if LI and MtM would be the ultimate tactics these days, as I recall being successfull with about all tactics, except princeton, and I still feel that it was because my players where not fit for that tactic.
So if most NTs are going for a single tactic every game, I feel they have a weakness that can be exploited, this game is simply waiting for a manager to exploit it, and enough supporting managers to arrange the players he needs ofc.
Because that's probabl where the real problem lies. Not with the GE, but with the type of players managers choose to train.
Too bad I lack the time to try out my old tactics to see if they would still work, and to see if I could break the circle of the boring 1tactic game. I do know which players and which tactics I would bring to the game though. ;)

But beside SB, the only skill that improves the chances of alterning a outside jumper is OD. If we speak only for the defender, ofcourse if the shooter has poor driving, he'll miss more often then one with higher driving.

pffffff,
dan vind je een speler al 2.5 dagen voor de deadline verstrijkt, ziet het er de hele tijd naar uit dat je hem kunt krijge, en opt laatste moent is er een rijke die uit het niks 150k extra bied... :#**

Ik heb in het begin van het jaar bijna een speler kunnen kopen, ik was aan het opbieden tegen iemand anders en ik had nog 300 k over om hoger te gaan en dan viel mijjn internet uit :s result nu staat hij voor 600k en goed getraind op de TL en heb ik geen 600 k meer --'

pfff 300k en 600k zijn geldsommen waar ik van droom...
suckt wel van dat internet maar ik heb 3G op mijn gsm en mijn ouders hebben zo een speciaal bakske voor als het internet uitvalt dat we (ff) kunne voortdoen.

MAAR!!!... Ik heb net een (soort van) Belgische (naam: Giocondo Scornavcca) gevonden.
Hij gaat wrs weer te duur worden maar stel van niet kan hij wel de vervanger zijn

i'm trying out some stuff at the NT lvl to try and figure out some more things concerning the 2-3 zone.

As for LI and MTM the ultimate tactic, i didn't say it was the ultimate tactic. But i have always said that building a LI team costs less and is done faster than an outside team.

i'm only going to consider the attacking part: (and i'm just explaining at a really simplistic lvl, while using the same SF on both teams. so i'm assuming i got a balanced SF)

for an inside attacking team, i'd need:
player JS/Jr/OD/Ha/Dr/Pa IS/ID/RB/SB
PG: x/x/15/15/15/15 x/x/x/x
SG: 15/10/15/15/15/12 x/x/x/x
SF: 14/9/12/15/15/10 13/12/10/9
PF: 10/x/7/x/x/x 14/14/13/10
C: x/x/x/x/x/x 16/16/15/12

for an outside team attacking team:
PG: 15/10/15/15/15/12 x/x/x/x
SG: 15/12/15/14/14/9 x/x/x/x
SF: 14/9/12/15/15/10 13/12/10/9
PF: 12/8/7/10/10/8 x/14/13/10
C: 10/7/x/8/8/8 x/16/15/12

as you'll see, i use the same defensif skills everywhere ( OD, ID, RB and SB) for all players. i'm using the same balanced SF in both tactics.

However, just look at the players. making a PG, SG, PF and C for the inside tactic is much easier than making one for the outside tactic. Training inside players takes less time than training outside players.

Now due to the economical salaries, you want to have as high secundairies as possible. training IS on guards is much easier ( your guard play's C, has a nasty match-up advantage against opposing big and the defensif adjustments just skip on spot, meaning your PG ( or SG) defends one of the guard spots, your SG defends opposing SF, your SF defends opposing PF, your PF defends opposing C and the guard who play's C on your team defends the other of the 2 guard spots.)

in such a line up, you'll have not to many TO's, players are more or less on the right spots. and you got a massive advantage on offense with the bad match-up for your guard against opposing C.

Now, let's just say i want to train my bigs on outside skills: Js can be done on SF/PF, DR can be done on SF/PF. however, PA, HA and JR can only be done on PG/SG spots. So in that event, you need to have a big play at a guard spot. On offense he's got less driving than his defender opposing him. Less PA. Less JS, less JR. That means that he can't contribuate offensifly, and all of your players play out of position. your C can't drive past his defender to get inside and take an inside shot, he can't pass, can't shoot. in other words, he's dead weight on the attack and is likely to turn your ball over. you can say that you got a PF with Js play C, but you still need to get the ball to him and each time your big who's play at the guard position gets the ball, he risks losing it.

So training bigs out of position is much Harder. If we consider the fact that guards for inside tactics are trained faster than guards for outside tactics and the bigs are also trained faster, then it's pretty easy to figure out why everyone play's inside. add to that the fact that playing inside, you got a rebounding advantage, and it's a no brainer why everyone is making players to play inside.

Also, to defend outside, the guards only need OD (pretty easy to train). JS/JR has to go to a very high lvl for it to be effective against a high OD. If the devs want to rebalance things, they have to make it more interesting for managers to train outside players. For instance, lower salary on the JS/Jr would be a start. or players demanding more salary for all their secundairies.

Cause right now, if you build a PG: x/x/18/17/17/16 16/x/x/x and play LI, then he'll drive inside and take inside shots if he can't get good driving shots against a weak ID on his direct defender ( assuming you are playing MTM), meaning the defender is likely to foul or the attack will score. He can pass, and he's good enough to defend. Cause for the IS 16, your PGs Salary doesn't increase by a single $. however, JS on bigs, that does increase their salary...

What a depressing statistic:

in the past 2 seasons, we've lost about 20% of Belgiums total amount of managers.

That means that
*) we've got less leagues ( BB might remove our V league, meaning less long cup adventures for many teams and less easy cash for teams playing against many bots in the cup...)
*) less talented players will be drafted by Belgium managers
*) less Belgians will be trained for the U21
*) less Belgian players will have the potential and good enough skillset to start training for the NT
*) less Belgians trainee's will be available on the market for others to buy and train em
*) and less activity in general on the Belgian forums ( which has been at an all time low in the past few seasons...)

if anyone has any suggestions as to find a way to promote BB in Belgium, i think now would be a good time to come forth with it.

for an inside attacking team, i'd need:
player JS/Jr/OD/Ha/Dr/Pa IS/ID/RB/SB
PG: x/x/15/15/15/15 x/x/x/x
SG: 15/10/15/15/15/12 x/x/x/x
SF: 14/9/12/15/15/10 13/12/10/9
PF: 10/x/7/x/x/x 14/14/13/10
C: x/x/x/x/x/x 16/16/15/12

for an outside team attacking team:
PG: 15/10/15/15/15/12 x/x/x/x
SG: 15/12/15/14/14/9 x/x/x/x
SF: 14/9/12/15/15/10 13/12/10/9
PF: 12/8/7/10/10/8 x/14/13/10
C: 10/7/x/8/8/8 x/16/15/12

with all respect Revo, but I already stopped reading after this part...
for example, among other things, if you want to attack outside, and you don't have ANY player on the field who's JR is almost equal or higher then his JS, will already be a bad choice of tactics. Given the average skill on the players, and given their JR skill, that team should never be used for outside tactics, unless your opponent uttrly sucks in outside defense, and you want to surprise him)

I do agree that single-sides players are much easier to be trained, but that's why I say the manager also needs other managers willing to hepl out, which means they don't mind putting the needed effort in creating the right players, not the single-sided ones.
The game has much more to offer for people who work for their results (I think Joe has proven that for a while now). Too bad many take the easy way, and then start drawing conclusions about the GE not working the right way, because 1 or 2 tactics are played by 90%.
That's all I wanted to say about it actually. No offense to anyone.

No offense taken, but if it takes a 16 or 17 in both JS + JR to make an outside effective, wages will be as impossible to pay as for a monstruous C without secondaries.

What makes LI so played now, is that you can have a good balance of primaries / secondaries for an optimal result, while outside you'll always need the pesky JR.

Better spend your money on a JS 11 IS 16 player than on a JS 3 IS 18. The latter will cost much more and not especially be more effective than the first.

And actually there isn't for outside play such opportunity to balance primaries and secondaries in order to get a decent outside play with wages under control.

One last thing is that inside defense is extremely expensive in terms of wages, meaning most teams stick to ID 16 or 17. On the other hand, OD isn't generating such costs, and OD 18 or 19 are plenty. So ...

No offense taken, but if it takes a 16 or 17 in both JS + JR to make an outside effective, wages will be as impossible to pay as for a monstruous C without secondaries.

What makes LI so played now, is that you can have a good balance of primaries / secondaries for an optimal result, while outside you'll always need the pesky JR.

Better spend your money on a JS 11 IS 16 player than on a JS 3 IS 18. The latter will cost much more and not especially be more effective than the first.

And actually there isn't for outside play such opportunity to balance primaries and secondaries in order to get a decent outside play with wages under control.

One last thing is that inside defense is extremely expensive in terms of wages, meaning most teams stick to ID 16 or 17. On the other hand, OD isn't generating such costs, and OD 18 or 19 are plenty. So ...

Dartreb, you are forgetting the SB ;)

inside defense is so damn expensive because it's ID+SB that is required to have good defenders. Where as for outside defense, you only need OD (tho i've been experimenting with SB on guards and i must say, having SB on guards isn't that bad. still, it's a nightmare to train. long live the random side ups on SB for guards :D)

ID and SB is more expensive together than OD ( only ID vs only OD, then i think that ID is slightely less expensive. but ti's the addition of the SB that makes the inside defense so darn expensive)

and it still shows that unless BB changes the wage on JR big time, then you'll keep seeing guy's building inside teams...