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No offense taken, but if it takes a 16 or 17 in both JS + JR to make an outside effective, wages will be as impossible to pay as for a monstruous C without secondaries.

What makes LI so played now, is that you can have a good balance of primaries / secondaries for an optimal result, while outside you'll always need the pesky JR.

Better spend your money on a JS 11 IS 16 player than on a JS 3 IS 18. The latter will cost much more and not especially be more effective than the first.

And actually there isn't for outside play such opportunity to balance primaries and secondaries in order to get a decent outside play with wages under control.

One last thing is that inside defense is extremely expensive in terms of wages, meaning most teams stick to ID 16 or 17. On the other hand, OD isn't generating such costs, and OD 18 or 19 are plenty. So ...

No offense taken, but if it takes a 16 or 17 in both JS + JR to make an outside effective, wages will be as impossible to pay as for a monstruous C without secondaries.

What makes LI so played now, is that you can have a good balance of primaries / secondaries for an optimal result, while outside you'll always need the pesky JR.

Better spend your money on a JS 11 IS 16 player than on a JS 3 IS 18. The latter will cost much more and not especially be more effective than the first.

And actually there isn't for outside play such opportunity to balance primaries and secondaries in order to get a decent outside play with wages under control.

One last thing is that inside defense is extremely expensive in terms of wages, meaning most teams stick to ID 16 or 17. On the other hand, OD isn't generating such costs, and OD 18 or 19 are plenty. So ...

Dartreb, you are forgetting the SB ;)

inside defense is so damn expensive because it's ID+SB that is required to have good defenders. Where as for outside defense, you only need OD (tho i've been experimenting with SB on guards and i must say, having SB on guards isn't that bad. still, it's a nightmare to train. long live the random side ups on SB for guards :D)

ID and SB is more expensive together than OD ( only ID vs only OD, then i think that ID is slightely less expensive. but ti's the addition of the SB that makes the inside defense so darn expensive)

and it still shows that unless BB changes the wage on JR big time, then you'll keep seeing guy's building inside teams...

ok, now I'm reading something diffrent.
first it was the GE, now it is the wages. I can agree with the current view, I'm not familiar with wages for such high skills, but I can imagine it's true.

but you don't need JR 18 to be successful, I never said that, but when I see JS 15, JR10 players, I'm not tempted to let them play outside attack, I'd rather use JS12/JR13 players for that purpose, and you can say I'm wrong, but I'm 99% sure, that JS12/JR13 is less expensive in wage then the JS15 guy. Yet they will perform better in outside attack.

(228847.33)

i'm hoping it's going to change something, either the wage of SB ( making it less and thus more interesting to train to shut down that LI domination) or that it becomes more effective at lower lvls.

Either way, looks like something will be done about that SB domination.

As for outside tactics. All NT's have minimum OD 18 on all guards nowadays. Many NT's even have some OD 19 or 20's aswell. To make a guard able to shoot at a respectable rate against an OD 20 defense, we're talking about JS 20 JR 16 or something allong those lines. And that is a massive amount of salary, and we're not even including the OD, HA or DR on the guard.

Just to give an idea: JS 20 JR 16 OD 18 ( assuming all other skills are attrocious) is 171k salary. and you've got no other skills to add.

if you consider this guard:
JS 20 JR 16
OD 18 HA 18
DR 18 PA 14
IS 1 ID 1
RB 1 SB 1

and you'r talking about 190k in salary for a player who can only play outside... If you assume his Rebounding is lvl 5 with the same skillset, you are talking about 243k in salary, which no team wants to spend on a guard. So to get those numbers, you need to find a guard with a RB Atrocious ( which isn't exactly every interesting for the NT). So that is why it's just to problematic to get outside players. First off all, nobody wants to train em anymore cause it's so much more salary efficient to make a LI guard and second of all it's just nearly impossible to sustain such a guard, even in a top lvl. top BBBL salary is 900k if i'm not mistaken. if you shelf out 180k for just 1 guard ( you'll need another one) so that is 360k on just 2 guards. you still gotta get a SF, PF and C with some sort of bench.

So again, it just isn't interesting for people to train outside players anymore... in the guards who have a shot at NT selection some day, all of them are currently getting trained ( or have been trained) in IS. making the normal Passing PG or SG just doesn't work anymore at the NT lvl. The best example of it is Deseure. He's a terrific guard. One that i would have on the NT roster if we'd play outside. However, since we don't have guards that are strong enough to play outside at the NT lvl ( and Deseure for that matter would probably wouldn't be effective enough to be a starter, yet he's our best outside shooter) i opted to leave him out of the NT this season in favor of getting a guard who has got JR to some extend, but who would have a much bigger impact if we were to chose to play inside tactics ( which we've done in almost every game...)

At the NT lvl, it's come down to who can field players to have the biggest possible mismatch on the field. most teams all have competent bigs, so now it's a battle between who has the most IS on the guards to win the games. it's a shame, but that is how things are at the NT lvl.

England has got this insane SG called Sharpling, who was on the TL recently. JS 20 JR 15 OD 20 SG. He's most probably the best SG there currently is on BB. And his RB lvl 2 gives him 230k wage for next season ( assuming they don't change anything to the salary calculations formula). 230k for that guard is one hell of a lot for just 1 guard... his RB lvl 2 doesn't make him very interesting for the NT in terms of secundairies... just imagen RB 5 on his skillset, and you'r looking at 275k salary.

just to say, the match right now really is in favor of making LI teams. but once the BB's change the GE to make Outside tactics slightely more interesting, i'm pretty sure that people will pay top dollar for that SG. Problem is, do you want to take the risk at buying such a player now or not (And the same arguement can be made about do you want to risk training a player to a simular skilllvl or not)

Last edited by AthrunZala at 2/19/2013 1:14:33 PM

Ik klaag over de lage transferprijzen, je doet je best om jonge spelers op te trainen maar op den duur is het niet meer haalbaar, spelers die je 3 of 4 seizoenen lang hebt getraind en hun loon hebt betaald kan je nu maar verkopen voor een luttele 500k...

hoe komt dit en kan er iets aan gedaan worden?

de markt is sterk geevolueerd de laatste paar seizoenen.

Vroeger wilde iedereen C's hebben. je trainde een C op tot IS 14 ID 14 RB 14 en je kreeg er al gauw 1M voor. Echter, eens dat de salarissen gedaald zijn, moest je langer trainen om een deftige prijs te krijgen, want iedereen wilde betere spelers + de andere maangers trainden ook C's tot dat niveau.

Sinds de laatste GE aanpassing, willen managers spelers met andere skills. Tegenwoordig zijn pure C's ( IS, ID, RB en SB) bijna waardeloos in je wedstrijd. zet er een C met JS tegenover een pure C ( eentje met IS, ID, RB en SB, maar bijna geen OD) en die zal massa's scoren met zijn JS ( en je C zal wrs fouten maken en moeten gaan zitten).

De markt voor SF's en PF's is sterk gestegen, daar die voor 'normale' spelers zwaar gedaald is. Volgend seizoen gaat er weer een verandering komen in de GE ( BB-Marin heeft hierover gesproken dat er iets zou veranderen in SB, dat waarschijnlijk zou kaderen in het trachten een einde te maken aan de Blik naar Binnen dominatie die er heerst). Dan zullen andere karakteristieken belangrijker worden voor bepaalde posities, en dus verandert de vraag en aanbod in de transfermarkt weer.

Wat je spelers betreft, je kan nog altijd hoge prijzen krijgen voor spelers hoor. je moet ze alleen maar zodanig trainen dat ze speciale eigenschappen hebben om hen interessant te maken ( zoals IS/ID op guards, guardskills op Centers, etc...)

Dus eigenlijk moet sinds een paar seizoenen iedereen alles kunnen...

min of meer. een leger van SF's dat heb je nodig :P

ok.. da wordt sparen dus...

De utopie zou zijn allemaal 1ste klas SF, maar dat is niet haalbaar...

the point is you realy don't need JS20. And JS is a MAJOR wage infulencer. (look at draftees and you will see, a draftee with a number of respectable skills, but low JS costs less then 3 k salary, where a player with only respectable JS costs over 3k wage for sure)

if I would have that JS20, JR15, OD20 player, I'd either play him at SF position, or, if his inside defense is too low to play SF, I'd sell him and buy an other SG. You can have the opinion he's the best SG in BB; but I'm prety sure he's not.
Ok nothing can be said against his OD20, but I'd rather get myself a JS16, JR17 guy instead, and he will cost A LOT less in wage too...

This said, I also don't agree with your statement NT guards need JS20. JS 15 or 16 is high enough, for PG I'd not want one with a higher JS then 12!! But I know we differ on that point of view for a long time now.

JS is the most overrated skill in BB, and it's so crazy people are still willing to pay an excessive amount for it.