BuzzerBeater Forums

You mentioned once that attendance should increase to the point that a div I player would lose only about 25% of his total income rather that the 40% listed, however with the collapse of TV revenue and an average attendance increase of only 7% we are losing more like 50-60% of our income.

I'm just wondering when we get to those 25% income losses you mentioned.

My team was the runner-up in Division 1 of a small country. We experienced a 7% increase in season ticket holders. Bastages then gave us a half a ball when we won by 47 in our first cup game. Overall attendance began at 14000+, 4000 less than the last game of the finals last season. That game was a loss. Our next game saw an additional 4000 seats empty. That's 8000 fewer ticket buyers than last season, after two games.

hahaha

that was what i was pointing out, even with the attendance formula its still about winning

as the saying goes , . . . . this world has only room for winners :D

Everyone seems to be an expert on the finances of teams they don't know anything about.

Bank roll? The reason the market get inflated is cause we were all spending the excess profits on players. Now, those investments we made in the last season have devalued greatly overnight. Everyone I know was spending everything they could for the playoffs last season.

This sounds a little too much like Patrick Ewing's famous statement made during the 1998 strike that Jim Rome likes to reset a lot (paraphrasing here) "We make a lot of money, but we spend a lot of money, too." This was his justification for people with access to lots of resources whining that it wasn't enough in case you missed it.

And thank you for backing up my statement for me, it's much appreciated.

Yeah, cut out the only bonus the top divisions have for winning their leagues, that'd be great. I could just quit the B3 now and not worry about overplaying players, buying 3 extra depth players, spending extra time planning. Make it a glorified PL.

Ok, this one I chalk up to ignorance on my part ... here I thought you already got increased TV revenue and attendance for being in D.I. I mean I knew the percentage you lost from your matches for being in D.i was higher, but my deepest apologies, I didn't realize once you promoted from D.II, you advanced to the "Dustbowl" division, in which you played for as long as you could before your complete lack of income choked the life from your team, sending you hurtling all the way back to D.III. You have my deepest sympathy. Expect a lovely horseshoe-shaped funeral arrangement to arrive at your decaying arena soon.

Oh and another thought ... approximately how many supporters do you have currently, and how much merchandise revenue are you pulling in weekly? Just mild curiosity on my part ... no biggie. I know of D.II teams that are barely staying in D.II pulling in much higher fan support increases than consistently successful D.III teams are, so I can only imagine what bottom of the barrel D.I teams are raking in, much less the successful ones.


Not every post you read that seems like it might be remotely directed toward you is. And sometimes guilt results in our speaking out in defense of ourselves when it isn't necessary or even warranted. I can see how my original post was a tad inflammatory, but I assure you it was in no way meant to be an attack upon anything but the recent changes. The whole excess cash thing was directed more toward day traders than anyone else, and I'm sorry if I wasn't clear enough on that. But hey, what do you care about some D.III scrub like me? Especially when my team's accountant is already making arrangements to move his family to Catalina before my players and fans get a hold of him in the wake of the impending failure of my team.

Three paragraphs that didn't address BJ's point about:

Yeah, cut out the only bonus the top divisions have for winning their leagues

Instead of underlining the whole statement ... try just underlining the "only bonus for winning" part.

And thank you for backing up my statement for me, it's much appreciated.

You stated that we can absorb the changes due to the bankrolls we built up. That's false in every case of teams in D1 that I'm aware of (which is far from a scientific sample), now you're moving the goalposts.

Ok, this one I chalk up to ignorance on my part ... here I thought you already got increased TV revenue and attendance for being in D.I. I mean I knew the percentage you lost from your matches for being in D.i was higher, but my deepest apologies

We don't get higher TV revenue. Same 35k in D1 as you get. We do get higher attendance, while we have higher payrolls to stay competitive. You'd prefer that higher division teams had the same revenue streams as lower division teams? If so, what's the point of trying to promote.

Overall, if I win every competition I'm entered in estimating a profit of 2m. 1.5m of that comes from winning the B3, which isnt exactly a high chance for any of us. If I win the US cup, there's the other 500k.

So, winning the NBBA will likely get me to break even.

If I don't win any of those three, I'm likely to lose money.

You're situation much worse then mine? If so, break it out for us.



Last edited by brian at 8/22/2008 6:10:45 PM

as crazy as it sounds

we lose the prestige of being in a top division . . . . i mean normally if you bank in too much talent it weighs pretty hard for that team to really make that much money


right now even if you have a nice team you would still find yourself struggling with your finance, basically removing a lot of options which was the purpose of the change.

to cut it short its not really a win win situation

You're situation much worse then mine? If so, break it out for us.

Admittedly, once I found out you are getting the same 35k per week for TV that I was in D.III I was pretty livid ... for you. That being said, I'm dumbfounded that you get upwards of 1.5mil for winning B3.

I need to go deep in the cup to make enough money to survive? I felt the sting of this stupidity this week when starting backups in my cup match. Two of my players stubbed their toes 5ish minutes into their starts and I end up with starters having to come in and play way too many minutes last week, resulting in significant (3) level drops in game shape for both starter and injured backup.

Look, this was never a gripe intended to single out how awful my position was compared to everyone in higher divisions than me, it was sincerely meant to be one that addressed my concerns with the new season changes. Did I point a finger a couple directions? Sure ... but only because I fail to see how changes that have affected my team in this manner, when D.III is only getting slapped for 10%, isn't having profoundly negative effects in the higher divisions as well. I understand the justification for these changes, and I understand they were made with good intentions. And I'll humbly admit that most of my tirade was done so in a flurry of rage at my current situation while not taking into account some of the current changes effecting those up the ladder. That being said here's where my team currently stands and why I'm so upset about it.

I couldn't afford to significantly upgrade any positions on my team the past few seasons because of the inflated economy. I had nowhere near the revenue of teams higher up the ladder to even attempt to compete with them in free agent bidding wars. This is why I welcomed the idea of the economic changes ... until I felt the end result. As it stands, I have the best player in the league on my team (the recipient of the league MVP who received every first place vote). I purchased a high level PR guy last season only to replace him with a 7 or 8 (i forget what he was when I signed him) because the merchandise revenue I received for having the higher level one was less than what I was paying the guy to be on my staff. Presently, I'm pulling in about $19k in MR thanks to the lvl 6 PR guy (after skill decreases) I have that I'm paying about $16k.

Last season, I was making enough money in weeks that I had home matches to counteract the weeks I didn't have home matches, usually with a fair amount of excess resulting in a significant enough profit that allowed me to make expansions of a couple hundred seats every couple of weeks by season's end. This week I had a home cup match and a home TV match, both of which I won, and I netted a profit of around $9k. My draft was less than stellar again this season (thanks in no small part to the stupidity of the scouting process ... another post for another day), so I find myself in a position again this season of not being able to consider selling off a marketable player and replacing him with trainable talent.

I now find myself nearly a half million dollars in debt, which means if I do sell a player in the currently deflated market, I'm going to lose a half million of whatever I sell him for, significantly reducing the amount I can then invest in new talent. Last season I placed much less emphasis on cup wins than training so I could improve the overall talent level of my team. This was absolutely necessary thanks to the imbalance in team strength of my division, ala the East vs West in the NBA. I'm not complaining about the imbalance, since it's simply a harsh reality I've been trying to overcome...

(cont'd next post)

Last edited by Tracy Marrow at 8/22/2008 8:21:26 PM

All of that being said, I'll get back to the "cup stupidity" as I labeled it, which I should have related more to a double edged sword. If I need to win cup matches to survive financially, it means one less league match I can play my starters in each week when I get faced with a comparably skilled team in any given cup match. This in turn means that I face the possibility of having to "throw" league matches to stay in the cup ... the very thing I was trying to avoid last year in seeking a higher position in the league standings in hopes of increasing revenue from league matches. Now I have a choice to make ... lose money because of lost league matches to extend my cup run, or lose money because I drop out of the cup early to stay competitive in my division. A lose-lose situation hardly sounds like an improvement to me, and this is why I'm seeing red at the moment.

The Cup payouts are BullJive, they are way to low.