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National Team Debate Thread (thread closed)

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From: southpaw17

To: Coco
This Post:
00
208821.56 in reply to 208821.43
Date: 2/9/2012 4:51:46 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
3434
Facilitated. Not decided. The main duty of the coach is to take responsibility for the tough calls and come up with unexpected solutions to problems.
I'm glad you're asking this because this allows me to clarify a point that's very important: I've ran as a U21 coach more than 10 seasons ago on the promise of getting the community involved. I think I was somewhat successful though not to the extent that jfarb later was.

This time around I'm running on my "big decision" experience, and I honestly don't have the energy to push on the community aspect myself. So if you think it's essential to the role of the coach that they *themselves* foster the community, you shouldn't vote for me.


My question to you is, what would you be deciding that hadn't already been drawn up in the forum discussions? By the time that we were done debating on what we should do for the current matchup there wasn't much decision making to be made.

Also, how do you plan on developing the players that you have talked about for the NT if you aren't in the community finding people that will help you in getting the players developed that we need?

This Post:
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208821.57 in reply to 208821.47
Date: 2/9/2012 4:53:26 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
3434
I think nother thing everyone needs to think about is that we all have interest in the NT but how come Joel seems to be the one that is "supposed" to get more members on the offsite and work with the community aspect? This should be a team effort ran by both the NT and U21 coaches as well as the group of members already on the offsite. I think that seems to be one of our problems is we come up with ideas to try to get more people to the offsite but we never follow through. I think we need to be more successful as an offsite community promoting player building and involvment on the forums.


I have the time to follow through and I have the ideas to get teams more interested in the NT.

This Post:
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208821.58 in reply to 208821.57
Date: 2/9/2012 7:35:17 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
244244
Question #2, I'd like to hear everyone's opinions on what we should be expecting performance(record/success) wise in the next 2 seasons under your leadership.

From: Azariah

To: Coco
This Post:
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208821.59 in reply to 208821.44
Date: 2/9/2012 7:35:30 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
103103
A d.II team with a properly constructed arena and properly managed staff/scouting expenses can sustain 400-500k salary even before accounting for merchandise bonuses, which would mean they could sustain a NT guard/SF without massively crippling their team (see: Harper with Ritter, Curry when he cared with Lundy).

Yes, the hope is that someone will rise through the ranks and be able to ride the coattails of their NT trainee to the NBBA. Yes, not every team will be able to do so, and some teams will be faced with a choice to sell or wreck their club team. My primary goal is to minimize the pressure on trainers to "NT or bust" with their trainees, and thus to avoid more "Owens situations", which wind up being negative all around and can potentially cost us good trainers.


P.S. 1-2 levels in each primary is huge for a big man (secondaries being equal). Two big men with 18-18-18 will completely own two big men with 16-17-16 and it's not even close. I think you're seriously underestimating this difference.


$35k-70k salary is 1-2 levels in ALL PRIMARIES COMBINED (17-17-18 compared to 18-18-18), not in each primary.

This Post:
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208821.62 in reply to 208821.57
Date: 2/9/2012 9:40:52 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
246246
I have the time to follow through and I have the ideas to get teams more interested in the NT.


Expand on this?

This Post:
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208821.63 in reply to 208821.58
Date: 2/9/2012 9:59:44 AM
Smallfries
II.1
Overall Posts Rated:
419419
Second Team:
Smallfries II
I dont think these next two seasons need to be judged on performance of the team rather it needs to be judged on how well the new coach does to get community involvment as well as how he sets up the team for future success. Could we win worlds in two seasons? well, if we have a lot of luck but we would first have to qualify by performing well this season. I dont feel like we are at a top comptitive level though and we need to work on preparing the team for a future run which i am prepared to do that as well as take all the heat from parts of the communit thats wants to win now.

From: Azariah

To: Coco
This Post:
11
208821.64 in reply to 208821.60
Date: 2/9/2012 10:38:24 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
103103
Tapia was just on the TL earlier this week, 20/18/18 and pretty much flat naked otherwise. So, Maples +XXXXX

Garcia, their #2 guy, last we had skills... 19/19/16 with 10 JS and pretty much naked otherwise. So, Jairo (our #3) XXX and XXX (on a 70k salary gap, suggests to me that Jario's sublevels are better than Garcia's), or Bland XXX XXX, and Bland had much better PA/HN.

We're just not in the mystical 16/16/16 vs 18/18/18 hole against Chile. So what's with the insistence on the strawman?

Last edited by jfarb at 2/9/2012 4:27:00 PM

From: Azariah

To: Coco
This Post:
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208821.66 in reply to 208821.65
Date: 2/9/2012 11:33:38 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
103103
But the training system you advocate isn't "carry[ing] these players in the NBBA". It's having a farm team build the players for you so that you don't have to break out of your comfortable little mold to actually get the players built. Which is what leads to situations like the Owens transfer (or Bronson's serial transfers, where everyone gets to feel good that they would have bought him if only some foreign manager hadn't paid more than he was worth, and they can just bitch about overpriced US players on the transfer list without actually being expected to fix the problem).

If we are going to expect NBBA teams is going to "carry" a major big man, then we should expect that they actually make use of the fact that they're going to throw 1 game a week any way in order to acquire a high potential trainee and get him trained. It's unreasonable to expect and demand that a lower division team is going to spend millions of dollars on an 18yo trainee (or forgo those dollars to keep their own draftee), spend four seasons training him up to the point where he breaks their payroll, and then sell him on to an NBBA team who will now finish out his training. There's a lot of long term proof that it doesn't pencil out financially unless your team is developing and promoting because of the trainee(s), and teams are going to be much more interested in participating if they're presented with a viable way to have a piece of the NT, instead of just going down as "that guy who trained XXX before he became Coco's player".

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