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Mate, what I'm saying is: ... My opinion is that a 'long time' (so hrudey will be happy since apparently he contests the 2 year mark) to train players to their potential and to build the arena would be way way ahead in a poll for new users than for seasoned users.

Don't you think we should ask new users what they think about the game and the reasons why they might quit?

Note that training players and building the arena are two completely different issues.

I agree with you that the opinions of new users are of interest; no long-time user speaks for new users as a group. And if the opinion of new users were to be that they want their success to happen easily and rapidly, at the expense of the rich interplay of gradual strategic features that currently enhance the game, then they can go find a game that gives them the immediate gratification that you seem to think they want. I think the BB's are smarter than that.

And there is people wondering why BBs are not participating in the community.

I don't wonder that. I wonder why you give the clowns center stage in so many discussions. I suppose they’re so loud and aggressive you almost have to.

Okay, you cannot develop an entire roster through in-house training. I have also seen it stated that you cannot develop an entire roster through the transfer list. The result: successful rosters are a mix of home-grown and pickups from the transfer list ... so where's the problem with that?

Actually most elite teams only build through the TL. As you progress through the ranks you will see less and less training. Your matter of fact responses as actual fact are laughable. There is a whole other side to BB you have yet to experience. This isn't meant to be demeaning, but you have hardly played this game long enough to have any opinions that are actual fact.

As you progress through the ranks you will see less and less training.

A large part of my teams success has been training.

Was bored playing Div 1 so brought 3 young trainees and demoted back to Div 2.

These 3 trainees after several seasons helped take the team to a whole new level

Last edited by Sid Vicious at 11/8/2014 4:23:37 AM

Note that training players and building the arena are two completely different issues.

No the issue is the time invested. For the millionth time.

I agree with you that the opinions of new users are of interest; no long-time user speaks for new users as a group. And if the opinion of new users were to be that they want their success to happen easily and rapidly, at the expense of the rich interplay of gradual strategic features that currently enhance the game

Ever heard the word compromise? Ever thought that you need to balance the interest of current users and new users if you want to get the game growing?

I always said moderate changes, not radical. You guys just go out and assume things which are convenient to your narrative all the time.

You say arena is not a problem, but suddenly becomes one if seats cost slightly less. Same for training: nodody is going to suffer if training is slightly faster, yet it is a problem if that happens.

Both these changes are dam easy to implement.

I think the BB's are smarter than that.

Yeah they are smarter than doing changes that cater only to a relative minority of the user base such as breaking GS training or killing LI. By the same reasoning you applied elsewhere these should be non issues, since there is no dominance of blanks/LCD, LI, GS training in D" or below...

Last edited by Lemonshine at 11/8/2014 8:00:03 AM

I don't wonder that. I wonder why you give the clowns center stage in so many discussions. I suppose they’re so loud and aggressive you almost have to.

You seem to be doing pretty well yourself don't you think?

And if it was raining unicorn turds we would be on another planet. And you'd understand how GMs troll users too. Also, your stance of bringing no constructive idea, nor any argument (just personal opinions) failing to grasp the basic concepts underlying someone else opinion does not help either.

Last edited by Lemonshine at 11/8/2014 7:55:42 AM

Actually most elite teams only build through the TL. As you progress through the ranks you will see less and less training. Your matter of fact responses as actual fact are laughable. There is a whole other side to BB you have yet to experience. This isn't meant to be demeaning, but you have hardly played this game long enough to have any opinions that are actual fact.

Here we have the winner.

Speeding up training would be great imo. But what would that do with the game? Lots of things to think about before just doing a change like this.
Then the question is how easy the code is to change to. Some things are very complex as Marin and other BB's have explained.

I think the speed issue is easy enough. I think what would need to be considered is the tangental side effects and tweaks that would be needed as a consequence.

One side effect of faster training is the increased marginalization of lower potential levels, since those would cap that much faster than currently. And of course, given the current prevailing opinion of the draft as being only measurable in terms of the number of 18 year olds with MVP+ potential as is, this would be even more extreme.

Another side effect would be the increase in the escalation of young player salary compared to current. Of course, that wouldn't be a concern if we were certain that players would never train players who become unaffordable to them, but that's currently not the case.

I'd think that an increase in training speed in general is a good idea, but I'd rather see it targeted more as a rebalance of training altogether. Certainly the speed of 1v1, combined with how many players can receive training in it, is something that should be addressed, as is the absolute snail's pace training of JR.

Personally i find what is best with this game is also what drives managers away. The complex system that you need to figure out and then patiently try to see your plan go into motion.

That's absolutely what I like in the game too and, at the same time, I agree that this can be one of the reasons driving people away. If people would like a larger user base (currently leading the poll via app) we should find a way to make the game more palatable for new managers. People should think about good compromises, especially if they take little to nothing away from seasoned managers and are easy to implement.

My point is that I think the time investment needed to get to a certain level is long. There are people that assume new users should be fine enjoying the game competing at lower levels or from a disadvantaged position. I personally have enjoyed that and still enjoy it, but I disagree this applies to everyone and think we should ask people directly. Considering it takes a long time to build the arena and train players (even more so if you try to compete at the same time), I think that may be a logical concern for new users, assuming they resisted blowing all their money right away. Not only that, but making both slightly faster does not affect seasoned managers in any way.

Then the question is how easy the code is to change to. Some things are very complex as Marin and other BB's have explained.

That's clearly true. All we can do is speculate, however modifying some training speed parameters or reducing arena prices doesn't sound like as complex as adding new code or changing the GE.

I believe all the proposals listed by Sid Vicious have some merit and should be considered. I'm just puzzled that people want new users to boost numbers, but don't want to make any effort whatsoever to make it easier on them.

For the record, I'm totally with Sid Vicious when he says more should be made to help people understand key features of the game. I would like to add here that a lot of people don't even actively use/search the forums to look for information. The tutoring thread is fantastic, it would be great if people could land there before making some critical mistakes.

Last edited by Lemonshine at 11/8/2014 1:37:15 PM