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You can pretty much insert the same reply I just gave with the following exceptions...

Has prominent in the inside skills and average secondaries.
He sold for $ 919 300.

That is nowhere near enough infomation to prove your point. Even though the point you are trying to prove has nothing to do with what I said..

My player had strong/proficient inside skills and higher secondaries and sold for almost double.

I am not comparing a player with the same primaries. I am comparing a player with higher primaries! You trained over half a season of guard skills which means trained the way I said, there would be at least 2-3 pops in each of his primary skills. I had a quick look and I will show you an example of untouched secondaries and high primaries...

Níels Guðjónsson (12279712) Center
Owner: J_Celtics

Weekly salary: $ 45 977

DMI: 261900
Age: 20
Height: 7'0" / 213 cm
Potential: allstar
Game Shape: strong
Jump Shot: awful Jump Range: mediocre
Outside Def.: atrocious Handling: average
Driving: atrocious Passing: mediocre
Inside Shot: tremendous Inside Def.: tremendous
Rebounding: tremendous Shot Blocking: strong
Stamina: atrocious Free Throw: strong

Experience: pitiful

Place a bid on this player
Current Bid: $ 1 850 000 by Dream Team N.B.A
Auction Ends: 8/28/2010 6:14:05 PM

Now this player is even a year older and going for more than your guy. Even though you could add another season to your player who sold for less and would have higher primaries, the players on the market see high primaries and spend up accordingly. The player the discussion is about (if you remember there was one!) could be as good (probably even better) in 1 season as a 19 year old, so you can almost double the price that this player is selling for. And there is still nearly 2 hours of bidding to go...

Secondaries are more expensive on young players because they are harder to train up!

Secondaries are almost (I said almost) irrelivant to the sale price of a young tall because they are harder to train. The time spent training secondaries reduces the level of primaries, which just like potential, induces people to overpay for allround lesser players. This is especially relivant to a player in topic as he doesnt have the best level to start with.

Good day to you also!

Last edited by Pablo Ignatio Montoya at 8/27/2010 2:34:00 AM

Triple tremendous is excellent skills though which is why he is selling for so high.
And he has an extra season of training compared to my 19 year old.
If I had continued training the 19 year old he would have had triple sensational in the inside skills.
And a triple sensational with higher secondaries would have sold for more than a triple tremendous with no secondaries.

That is an example of player that has high primaries and terrible secondaries. The fact his age is 20 and a season more training makes him less valuable then your player, considering your player would have more inside skills, but still sold for more.

It isn't about whether or not he would sell for more if he had higher secondaries than someone with the same primaries. Of course he would! It is about a 19 year old with good secondaries selling for less than a player with more primaries and less secondaries! How many times do I have to repeat that?!

Okay so show me a 19 year old with higher primaries and no secondaries that sells for over 2 million.
You showed a 20 year old with far higher primaries. And he only sold for a little bit more than my player even though the had 5 pops extra on all primaries.

There are so many people that train Big men and just do IS/ID/Rebounding and then repeat. Consequently there are hundreds of Big men on the market at all times that have high salary, and that all look the same.
However, when a manager, such as myself, decides to train secondary skills on a big man, the player sticks out on the market, and is unique and has lower salary and more skills, and consequently sells for more.

A 50k center with good secondary skills is going to sell for a lot more than a 75k center with bad secondary skills.
Hence, secondary skills will sell for more, even if it means less primary skills.

You are repeating yourself again (and now adding the opinions of direwolf, which is true, however in the context of this dicussion is completely irrelivant to the subject once again) and I have had enough of repeating myself trying to explain. You don't even know what you are trying to prove to me anymore, even though I have reminded you over and over...

The point to prove was that training secondaries is more valuable than training just primaries.
If you do not understand that then feel free to never train secondaries if you wish, but you will lose out on value.

Then the other argument you had was saying that the TPE could not be wrong. And many people in this thread have said that you are wrong about that and the TPE is very flawed.

You just continue to ignore solid evidence.

Shld i train driving or passing or handling first? which order.

Joe Keenan (14818902) Power Forward
Owner: clevland craigs

Weekly salary: $ 3 071

DMI: 23700
Age: 18
Height: 6'5" / 196 cm
Potential: star
Game Shape: strong
Jump Shot: average Jump Range: inept
Outside Def.: awful Handling: inept
Driving: awful Passing: atrocious
Inside Shot: average Inside Def.: pitiful
Rebounding: strong Shot Blocking: respectable
Stamina: respectable Free Throw: strong

Experience: atrocious

this is my pf i've been working on inside shot but it never got better. I have an advanced trainer so how did dat happen?

The point to prove was that training secondaries is more valuable than training just primaries.

And in the context of the discussion you did not even come close to achieving that. And somewhere along the way you started pulling out comparisons that were irrelivant...

If you do not understand that then feel free to never train secondaries if you wish, but you will lose out on value.

I have said a couple of times in this thread that I not only have, but I will continue a small amount of guard training to my talls due to my belief that a player is better with decent secondaries. But 10 weeks in a players first season and a half is an absurd amount of time, especially when the player has terrible guard skills already. The majority of people said his skills were good based solely on his U/21 coach who said to train inside. My SG that you commented on in another thread did not recieve a single week of secondary training. He was considered by our U/21s coach as a good allround guard and was also the first pick of our SGs last year...

Then the other argument you had was saying that the TPE could not be wrong. And many people in this thread have said that you are wrong about that and the TPE is very flawed.

I didn't say it was not wrong. I said it is is a good guide to market trends. If my tall with guard skills trains inside skills and his estimate rapidly decreases, it is because the majority of the players with his similar skills are improving their primaries due to them being made guards specifically. When my guy is has slightly better inside skills than the others he is still less attractive to the majority of buyers because he is an average allround player with no standout weapon. However when my player is 21-22 and his inside skills catch up, he will be slightly more valuable, but to train 1 player for 3-4 seasons, maket value should be meaningless as this player is specifically made for your team and more valuable to your roster.

You just continue to ignore solid evidence.

I haven't ignored any evidence. I have pointed out that the majority of your evidence has no relivance because you are trying to explain something completely different than what is actually being discussed. I said a young player who spends more time on primaries as opposed to the same player spending it on secondaries if intended on a short term sale. You never tried to prove that... You said the TPE is wrong in the majority of cases. That is definately not true and the evidence you provided showed only small margins outside the TPE. There has to be sales that calculate both the high and low.

Now... Please tell me we are done!

Last edited by Pablo Ignatio Montoya at 8/27/2010 8:37:42 AM

I would give up training that guy his skills are just too low to make it worthwhile especially his ID. He is also short for big man training which will make it harder to train him even if he had better skills.