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It's penalty enough that he supports Liverfool...

No, Dont worry I got myself into the game too... just that I think Its too time consuming and if this game is actually a stock market game then I think I am going to quit and focuses my effort on the actual stock market where I am going to make a living ;)

I apologise if I seem confrontational, but that was quite a condescending response, especially from a BB (if you are a BB).

You, yourself, have made clever decisions on the TL and I highly doubt that you really believe that it isn't the TL that has allowed the successful players to get where they are, more so than the strategic basketball decisions they have made.

Here is one example of some smart TL play: (10596465) - bought for $51k on 12/24/2009 and sold for $600k on 3/1/2010. How many weeks is that? Or should we count it in days? That is almost $550k profit in trades for one player in a bit over 2 months.

How about we count it in seasons? I bought a 19yr old, trained him for 2/3's of a whole season, and sold him at the end when he no longer fit in with my team. And at the time I bought him, I was also in division V, and he was good enough to be a key player on my team all season long.

I realize you are trying to point out some kind of hypocrisy, I just don't understand why? My very first sentence to you was "I admit I can see your point about the value of TL poaching as a way to build money, but..."

I apologize if I seemed condescending, that wasn't my intention. I'm not a BB, just a regular manager like yourself. I just disagree with your view on the TL. IMO, trading is one of several ways to manage finances, financial management is important but still only one of several aspects of team management, and team management is only one component of winning individual games.

My only point was that there are in fact lots of strategic aspects to this game, so don't let yourself focus too much on the TL, especially if you don't enjoy that aspect of the game.

Please, I'm not trying to massively diss the game. As I have said, and will say again, the game has some great aspects and credit definitely needs to go to the developers. Sure, there are bugs. I've never complained about them, as I understand how (and sometimes why) they happen. I'm simply pointing something out.

That you trained a player for 2/3s of a season and sold him for over a thousand percent profit doesn't really do your argument that much justice. If you disagree with my view on the TL, that's fine. You are likely to move very slowly up the ladder and reach and point where you will flat line, or even go backwards, because other managers are effectively trading. But I don't think this will happen because, despite the debate, I believe you understand the importance of the TL.

My only point was that there are in fact lots of strategic aspects to this game, so don't let yourself focus too much on the TL, especially if you don't enjoy that aspect of the game.

I completely agree with you. It's just that success in the TL overpowers success elsewhere, including basketball analysis. This is irrefutable.

What you said was that the front page misleads people. I don't think it does, and pointed out the other facets of the game that the front page highlights. Points that you choose not to acknowledge.

Certain aspects of the front page mislead people, yes. There are certain aspects that do not. This doesn't mean that it is a wholly bad or wholly good thing. I'm pointing out a few things that are misleading, taken both in context and out of context.

I have not, ever, stated that the GE is bad or misleading or is not advanced. That you imply that I have is closer to selective editing than anything I have written to date.

As an aside, I also highly disagree with your point that none of the tactics are run for a full game in real basketball. I have coached and played and refereed many games where the teams involved ran the same thing for the entire game. One example of the full court press tactic being used for an entire game is the UNLV Runnin' Rebels under Tarkanian. They played full court man-to-man press for 40 minutes every game. They also played run and gun for entire games as did Loyola Marymount. (Anybody else remember that team with Gathers and Kimble?) And, in lower leagues like high school and grade school teams run motion offenses like flex for whole seasons. Princeton famously destroyed UCLA in the NCAA tournament playing 40 minutes of Princeton offense.And many teams play man to man only. In fact, until just a few seasons ago, man to man was the only defense you could play in the NBA.

I definitely see your point here and rescind my position against this.

Now, while I don't deny that it is a great game engine, it truly is, that still does not mean it is "advanced basketball simulation".

I never implied anything. I pointed out what you said in the above quote.

I completely agree with you. It's just that success in the TL overpowers success elsewhere, including basketball analysis. This is irrefutable.

I think one look at my team will refute this. Especially from about season 3-9. And last season I would have won the title again against a team with $100k+ salary and a manager who is infinitely better on the TL than I am if I had set my lineup properly.

Now, while I don't deny that it is a great game engine, it truly is, that still does not mean it is "advanced basketball simulation".


I never implied anything. I pointed out what you said in the above quote.

For someone who pointed out, perhaps wrongly worded, selective editing, you're doing really well.

"it" in that sentence refers to the entire game of BB not the GE. Nice try.

So, let's be clear, let's put you (the real you or you1) up against an almost identical you (you2). The only difference is that you1 does what you say you do and you2 trades, as an addition to doing everything you1 does. Do you honestly think both yous would be in the same league if they were in one of the top countries, rather than in your own? Do you honestly believe that both you1 and you2 would be able to compete on similar grounds?

I really, really don't want to seem condescending, and please forgive me if I do, but it simply does not take much intelligence to realise that if someone makes good money on the TL (which requires a lot of time), their roster will be better, their trainers will be better, their doctors will be better, their pr managers will be better, their arena will be bigger.. Have I missed something?

I am not saying it's a bad thing. What I am saying is that it is not a simulation of a basketball club.

Last edited by Axis123 at 1/24/2011 8:58:01 PM

Read axis more closely you'll see that he doesn't mean to say this is ONLY a stock market game, just that the TL situation has played too big a role. Most of us agree, becuase THERE ARE other aspects of the game which are way cooler and way funner than the whole stockmarket part. And I really think if you stick around and give the game a shot you'll find that your generation (and the ones to follow) will see this game as much more balanced than previous generation.

Hallelujah, yes, this is like music to my ears, especially the bits about the fun parts of the game.

I was daydreaming this morning about ways to have an awesome simulation game.

These are some of the things I came up with:

* Players ratings are based on statistics from earlier games and perhaps there would be some random factor. For the game engine, there would need to be some set statistic for that game, but the random factor could be included into deciding that number (out of whatever). Lebron doesn't always have an amazing game. Sometimes bench players come on and go crazy. Sometimes these things happen for a few weeks, or even months and then they fizzle.

* Sometimes average players shine in their later careers.

* Sometimes some players are just regular no names, then have a great season or a great few seasons or maybe it continues until the close of their career.

* Sometimes some players, mixing with other players work amazingly well and, with others, do not.

* Trades would be between managers, not from a TL.

* The only real trading would occur from players who are released as free agents. So it would be bidding, rather than trading.

* There would be leagues and arena sizes and, in order to develop, you would have to make good decisions and communicate well with others. Negotiation would be a powerful tool.

Now that I go to write, I've forgotten most of what I was thinking but there is a start. If the makers of BB were to create something like this, I would join immediately.