BuzzerBeater Forums

[

Spoken with the wisdom and experience of a guy whose size leads to him relying on Motion. ;)

What are you talking about? I am a Look Inside team all the way!!!!! :-) hahahaha

Last edited by Jason at 4/24/2012 1:33:31 PM

[

Spoken with the wisdom and experience of a guy whose size leads to him relying on Motion. ;)

What are you talking about? I am a Look Inside team all the way!!!!! :-) hahahaha

You win. Star potential is too low to have a truly effective inside box and one.

[

Spoken with the wisdom and experience of a guy whose size leads to him relying on Motion. ;)

What are you talking about? I am a Look Inside team all the way!!!!! :-) hahahaha

You win. Star potential is too low to have a truly effective inside box and one.

LOL :-)

What happens to trainees that people sell is completely irrelevant in this discussion. The question you led us to is whether you need high potential to make good money. So what happens after the sale doesn't matter at all.

And as far as secondaries, they don't add so much to the cap, so I'm not really sure what you're talking about in that case. You can train secondaries and primaries as well.

I acknowledge that training higher potential guys will probably end up getting you a bit more overall return, but if you account for the all the costs, training lower potential guys can give a good return.

Yay, you just showed us that SGs don't add salary with HA/DR/PA, but you do need some potential for those skills. I never intended to imply that secondaries have a zero cost in terms of potential cap. We wouldn't have needed Josef Ka to figure out the potential cap if the answer had all been salary. Duh. But that fact doesn't mean you can't add an acceptable level of secondary skills to a lower potential guy, which is what I took your point to be.

And as far as the overall TL economy goes, yeah I think prices have definitely fallen, and then flattened, for high salary players, it has stabilized for lower salary players. This is especially true for those salary segments that no longer get put on the TL automatically after their owners go bot. So players in the 10-25K salary range have a reduced supply, and their price reflects that. As you go higher on the TL there can be a bit more supply, so prices moderate. At very high salaries, prices are also flat, as potential buyers are reduced due to fewer teams being able to support those salaries. I picture a graph of TL price versus salary are exponential, rising relatively fast a low salary, and then flattening off.

Then, let's say you are going to train your guy for 2 extra seasons over what a star potential player would need to cap. And let's assume that we take two players, one star, and one p-allstar, superstar, whatever. They're trained exactly the same for three years, but you're going to train 2 more seasons before selling. The star guy gets sold after his third. How much salary are you paying in that 4th and 5th seasons? if we just say 30K in the 4th season, and 50K in teh 5th, that's a lot of money over 14 week season. If instead the star guy trainer recycled to a new star trainee, they're only paying ~5K for the trainee salary. In that case, you sure better be getting at least 600K net on sale price-purchase price.

So I'll reiterate: you can make better palyers with higher potential, you can sell them for a final price that's higher, and they'll be more useful to your own team. But I do not agree that you won't make money training and selling a lower potential player with a good build.

#2 the reason isay these palyers are worthless, is not per se that they can't be sold to someone, but that they can't be sold to someone winning out of those lower leagues...because the player is not effective to that end. maybe some star potentials are topp trained to some use, but in todays market, in a playoff race? peopel are gunning up with lpayers that can't be made with that potential constraints...as low as D4 in some cases, but definitely DIII, without adoubt (unless its a tiney country...in which case they shoudl go after their NT - they have the money!!!)

This is where I'd mostly disagree. I am currently holding my own in III with my star potential guards (well, one who is listed as a guard is a SF project with allstar potential, but he's nowhere near the star potential cap). And when I decide to sell one or more of them and upgrade with more veteran players with an appropriate skillset, they'll certainly be attractive enough players for teams in IV and V. And their money is just as good as the money of a guy in the NBBA or a guy who's training NT caliber players. If you're selling a Lamborghini, of course, you have to cater to the high finance shoppers, but there's plenty of profit available in selling Hondas to working folk too.

#1) Well, if we're talking about a hypothetical manager doing the training, if he can't evaluate initial trainees to buy, and can't perform training effectively, then he won't do it well for a low potential trainee OR a high potential trainee. That could easily lead to a larger loss if the manager screws up a high potential trainee.

#2) Good players with builds that fit into star potential are likely to be useful for teams in D3,4,5. And there are many more of those teams than the D1 and D2 teams, and far more of them fighting for promotion. Right? 4 times as many D3 as D2 leagues, and 16 times as many D4 leagues. So there will be more possible buyers for those players (note that in USA D3, most teams roll with ~240-300K total salary, which gives ~24-30K over 10 guys- right in the star potential wheelhouse). And that doesn't even figure in the D5 teams, which may be completely filled by human managers for big countries like Spain and Italy, or ~30-50% filled in countries like USA, Poland, France. But it's possible that your location in a top league of a very small country makes you less acutely aware of that.

#3) As I tried to point out, when you consider all the costs, from initial purchase through salary for the trainee, then your net profit on a highly trained, high potential guy, isn't as much as you think.

#4) I see what you're saying here, but in this case we are just valuing the trainees themselves, and what their return will be. For the moment, stipulate for argument's sake, that the process of training the guy doesn't affect the team's ability to promote, or maintain, league position. (perhaps we assume that the trainee is going to occupy the scrimmage game slot. Then in order to show that the higher trained, higher potential guy gains more than the capped, lower potential guy, you have to show that in his 4th and 5th season, his increased salary is offset by more league wins, more league attendance, and a greater chance to promote. Like you said, salary starts to rise very quickly in these trainees, so your player better have a very impressive contribution to your team's performance to counteract that salary growth.

Also it's useful to note that in this 4th and 5th year of training higher potential guys, the star potential trainer is now 2 seasons into completing the next trainee.

I certainly know about how fast a trainee's salary can rise, as my current crop of guys will be having a substantial increase at the next season rollover. And the "discount" of low salary but better performance due to training is a great reason to train guys, whatever division level you are in. It's allowed me to have lower than league average salaries every season, yet still be able to promote or stick in my league. That extra cash can then go towards arena construction, opening up space for future salary growth.