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Draft: Questions, help and more...

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From: Turtle

This Post:
11
241797.59 in reply to 241797.58
Date: 6/6/2013 12:35:48 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
9393
I don't want to presume to speak for anyone here, but I presume Beener understands and agrees with you that the higher potential means that the 19yo 5 potential player can theoretically become a better player than the 18yo 4 potential player, just like I think you understand and agree with Beener that missing the extra year of training puts the 19yo significantly behind the 18yo in terms of training, at least initially. I think Beener's point is that although the 19yo can eventually make up this difference and surpass the 18yo, it will take a lot of slow, laborious training during his later seasons when he is 25 years old or older to reach that greater potential. So although it is theoretically possible to make the 5/5 19yo a better player than the 5/4 18yo, his slower training makes it inefficient and impractical to do so.

And for those reasons, I would take the 18yo. But obviously there's room for debate there.

From: E.B.W.

This Post:
11
241797.60 in reply to 241797.59
Date: 6/6/2013 2:24:25 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
26152615
I like your analysis. Personally I do not think that it is that impractical to train a 5/5 19 year old that you drafted to his full talent and although it is not as efficient as the 18 year old, I believe he is still worth it. I never pass up on 5/5 A+ players.

Murray/Harris/MPJ/Grant/Jokic - 2020 NBA Champs
This Post:
11
241797.61 in reply to 241797.60
Date: 6/6/2013 9:27:07 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
455455
Which is fine. I just don't appreciate you saying that I haven't thought something through by making a vague statement with no detail or backup information.


Fair enough, that was an unfair statement on my part.

That said, I was by know means being vague. My opinion was made quite clear and in a previous post I was also clear in my reasoning on why I would rank the 18 year old higher.

But I'll expand a little further. I think if you take a 19 year old that has MVP+ potential it's highly unlikely that they will ever reach their full potential due to missing their best/fastest season of training. Or they just end up being mono-skilled which greatly diminishes their value (destroys their value I would argue). So what's the point of having a player with higher potential if you can't ultimately use it or you just create a flawed player?

I think a lot of people get a little too obsessed with the potential but the smart owners are looking for well trained, well rounded players that give them great bang for their buck not just a roster full of $150K+ players. And any player per all-star and above can ultimately start in D1 so it's not like that's a level not worth training.

This Post:
00
241797.62 in reply to 241797.61
Date: 6/6/2013 10:15:02 AM
Cruesli
DBA Pro A
Overall Posts Rated:
533533
Second Team:
The Milk
Both of you make valid arguments.And I would say that it's up to personal taste to who you agree with.

Personally I believe that A+ players have the possibility to be quite better than the regular A guys. So this might make up a bit for the lost year. Furthermore I don't think that perennial allstars would be great starters in Div I unless it's as an SF (the can be OK starters maybe). For my C position I need at least MVP potential if I want a star. Superstars can be good for the other 4 positions but there's the risk that this guy is below superstar potential.

So I guess for me it depends on whether I want the guy to be the star player on my team or just a good player that will take less total time to train.


Crunchy! If you eat fast enough
This Post:
22
241797.63 in reply to 241797.61
Date: 6/6/2013 10:39:55 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
129129
I disagree somewhat. To me a capped 26-29 year old is a glorified 31 year old. If you are in Div 1 you may not care either way.

But if I am going to try to win titles I would rather have a player(s) with some cap room. If he can be a starter from age 23 (say Div III)...while still training, he can lead the team to better results.

Besides A+ vs A may mean 7 weeks of training depending on the skill.

This Post:
00
241797.64 in reply to 241797.62
Date: 6/6/2013 10:48:52 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
455455
I had the first pick in the draft a couple seasons back. Scouted a 5/5 A+ 6'7" 18 year old SF with by far the best boxscore I've ever seen (I remember he had perfect shooting, perfect 3's, perfect FT's, multiple steals, blocks and no TO's). Then his skills came out and he had 1's for both passing and handling along with MVP pot. I sold him immediately.

Until you actually see the skills you don't know exactly what you're getting but if you drafted a 19 year old with terrible secondaries, a couple of 1's like my guy had I just don't think there's any recovering from that. He could be 22 years old before you get his secondaries to a decent level or as I said, the alternative is that you create a mono-skilled player with poor secondaries. Looking at the assists and TO's for my draftee today, that looks like exactly what has happened to him. (26110110)

Last edited by Beener not Beanerz at 6/6/2013 11:04:19 AM

From: Turtle

This Post:
00
241797.65 in reply to 241797.60
Date: 6/6/2013 11:17:39 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
9393
I don't disagree with you. I happen to like having high potential players on my team, just for the sake of their high potential. I think the greater training possibilities and potential builds are fun to imagine and try to achieve. So I personally might take a a 5/5 A+ 19yo, but then again I find training to be the most fun part of BB. Someone who sees training as a means to an end rather than an end in itself would probably prefer an 18yo, who will be able to help their team faster and still has very good potential in his own right.

Message deleted
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This Post:
22
241797.68 in reply to 241797.65
Date: 6/8/2013 2:46:46 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
1717
What a great discussion from everyone involved. I really appreciate getting differing opinions on the matter.

I decided to rate them 3, 1, 2. I figured if I somehow get lucky enough to get both of the two I liked best (the 5-4 A 18yo, and the 5-5 A+ 19 yo), that ranking gives me the best chance to get them both. I actually pick 7th, but 2 of the the people before me are inactive, and another is new, so I like my chances to get at least one of the three.

I figure whichever way I go will end up being wrong anyway. I'm lucky like that. :-p

This Post:
11
241797.69 in reply to 241797.64
Date: 6/8/2013 6:51:31 PM
rimmers
ABBL
Overall Posts Rated:
492492
Second Team:
Redbacks
that obviously a pretty unfortunate situation. But its the worst possible scenario.
There is a chance the 19yr old is only MVP vs the 18yr old being superstar. 18yr old wins hands down
There is a chance that the 19yr old is an all time great vs the 18yr old being Per Allstar. 19yr old is your man.
Cant predict the secondary skills accurately so saying the 19yr old could have 1s is not a valid reason, as the 18yr old could have the 1s and take all of that first year (and more) to fix, while the 19yr old could have great secondaries and be steaming ahead of him.

FWIW Id take the highest potential first, but Im using a lvl 6 trainer and training is my focus for now. If your using a lower trainer, id take the 18r old. If your looking to sell, the higher potential would hopefully go for higher, but that depends on whether they come out MVP or ATG, and what all the skills are!

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