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Leviticus 18:22(ot)
1 Corinthians 6: 9, 10(nt)
Romans 1: 26-28(nt)
Romans 1:29-32(nt)
Verse 32 will sting alittle

Don't split hairs with me please. ... of I was all over the place I would not have gotten 5 points for joining the conversation, so there are others who may not speak out but agree.
And to the poster right after. ....
If you Believe what is said in the scriptures don't hide at this ground swell of opinion where I have provided a direction on where to find the answer. ... not MY OPINION on the matter.

Um. .. there are more scriptures in Leviticus and Exodus.

Oh you won't find the word homosexuality in the bible but you explain that to the maker when the time comes.

Last edited by BarryS at 5/1/2013 9:58:54 AM

And to the poster right after. ....
If you Believe what is said in the scriptures don't hide at this ground swell of opinion where I have provided a direction on where to find the answer. ... not MY OPINION on the matter.

I don't even understand what you just said.

Don't split hairs with me please. ... of I was all over the place I would not have gotten 5 points for joining the conversation, so there are others who may not speak out but agree.

We're not splitting hairs here. I think there's a consensus here that the Bible condemns homosexuality, there is no question about it. The discussion is centered around the relevancy of the Scriptures, and the practicality of the situation and whether or not Collins should have come out in the way he did.

I asked you to stop earlier because I can't respond to what you're saying. Your grammar and spelling leaves a bit to be desired and I can't understand you. Please respond to the actual discussion that we're having with comments that both contribute to the conversation and are readable, or refrain from commenting. I say this in the kindest possible way, so don't take it personally.

Ah, I see the difference, your reading a newer updated form of the bible, from 1979. Big difference between the that and the original King James bible. Like everything else about religions, they update their rules as they go along.

Here is the original King james version. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+1%3A29...

Romans 1:29-32
King James Version (KJV)
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

and here is the NEW King James revision in 1979 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+1%3A29...

29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality,[a] wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.

It also mentions 2 footnotes.

Romans 1:29 NU-Text omits sexual immorality.
Romans 1:31 NU-Text omits unforgiving.

Having been born in 76 and raised in an old school Catholic home, I can see the discrepancies. I also see they added alot of stuff to the 10 commandments that weren't there originally. And by originally, I mean the 400 year old version, the standard.

Smartphone does not at all replace a cpu or laptop. ... my apologies to all who find this hard to follow. I try to clean up as much as I can as I see it . I'm at work and participating , so this is what you get when you try to be involved with a smartphone. .... anticipated grammar rushed so you don't get caught using a phone on the clock.
That is why you see "edited" by every post of mine.
And btw... the second comment you would was not for you.

Last edited by BarryS at 5/1/2013 10:18:16 AM

Interesting points but unfortunate. ... no man has the right to disturb, put in, take out what was originally written.
As you claim I go by what is written in the first manuscript. .... before all the centuries of editing by men with no authority to do so.

Bro. I'm a Christian too, and I tend to agree with you on the issue. But seriously, stop. Your arguments are not compelling and you're making us look bad. There is no question at this point as to what the Bible says, people are questioning the reliability of it. What you're saying isn't making any sense, you're making wild points all over the place.

My take? I. Do. Not. Care. I'm ashamed for the fact that this is a big news story.Whatever Jason Collins' sexual preference is, I don't care to hear it. I won't treat you any differently. And if we were really a "progressive forward thinking society" this shouldn't be a big deal. But it's been made into a big deal. I can appreciate and understand the fear and shame these people go through because of their sexuality, especially in the sports industry, but I don't think anyone wants to bash Collins here.

Am I for homosexuality? No. My faith dictates that it's wrong. Do I treat homosexuals as less than equal or shun them? Absolutely not. While I may disagree with their lifestyle, the fact is they're still people just like me and deserve to be treated the same without prejudice. So I conclude by saying again, that I could not care less. My opinion makes zero difference, and to be honest, it's none of my business. It's between Collins, whoever he wants to date, his friends and family, and now the ball club because he's decided to involve them in his sexual preference.

I think this is a great post. Believing that homosexuality is wrong is fine. Discriminating against people is not. That's really all there is to it to me.

Discrimination?
It would be hypocritical for me to use the word I have typed in that way. .... for I'm African American.
I speak of what is written. ..... it is for our instruction.
What you do with it is your business because it is a choice. Just like that scrub bb player , he made a choice.
I'm sure he is ready to deal with the consequences of his actions.

I have respect for the full range of opinions here.

I do caution against using the Bible as the only source of how we are to carry ourselves, unless you follow all of the 613 commandments laid out in the Torah (Old Testament) alone:

http://m.chabad.org/m/article_cdo/aid/756399

I ask, in all honesty, if this one commandment about homosexuality is so important, why are so many others in here not considered equally important? Why is it not an affront to God that you shave with a razor (#69), or get a tattoo (#72) or to rest on the seventh day (#87), or not to eat fruit of a tree in its first three years (#200) or fail to take a ritual bath every time you ejaculate (#460), or not to insult or harm anybody with words (#501)?

I am Jewish, but not Orthodox. There are people in my broader community who try to follow every commandment, believing they cannot choose the ones they don't follow. As much as I find it extreme, I respect the consistency.

I find it troubling that people will so casually trample over some of the 10 Commandments while waving the Bible around to say "God hates fags." If you read it, He doesn't like a lot of things. And he doesn't say that some of them are OK to break.

Last edited by redcped at 5/1/2013 11:35:26 AM

I know I have said this before but I won't post anymore. I cannot respond to someone of Jewish heritage without this going horribly wrong being that we are talking about the bible (Torah). Though deeply saddened at the blockade on display.

Bye

Ironically I grew up in Reform Judaism (basically a way for a bunch of agnostic or borderline agnostic people to get together and maintain a community) and we barely learned anything about the Old Testament (Torah). I'm assuming this is because of all of the harsh punishments and ridiculous commandments that have nothing to do with life in the 20th/21st century, especially for a community (Reform Jews) who are disproportionately liberal on social issues. Fortunately this means that, at least for me, Jason Collins' announcement does not change how I view him and does not strike me as a big deal, at least with regard to my world view. As we've seen, however, it clearly is relevant to society as many people are uncomfortable or "morally" opposed to homosexuality. At first I thought his coming out was a big deal, then for a few minutes I just assumed that the vast majority of people would be fine with it, but after reading through these posts it's clear that it really is a big deal so even though he's not a very good player, he's relevant.

I don't post the USA forums much, but a lot of you have probably seen me around the forums, and noticed that I have a bible verse in my signature. And since this discussion has turned towards scripture, as homosexuality and abortion debates often do, I thought I'd at least throw in my two cents, and I'll try my best to keep it pretty brief.

First, everything I say is based on the fact that the bible is the ultimate authority in my life. That means where I find my truth, my guidance, my leadership, and thankfully my salvation is found in the Word of God (which is what I believe the Bible is). If you disagree with me, or are offended by what the Bible says, please feel free to bbmail me as I'd love to have an open dialogue about it.

So, based on this debate. Do I believe homosexuality is a sin? Yes, I do. However, there is also no sin that outweighs another. In fact, based on what I know about myself, I would consider myself a greater sinner than anyone I know, and certainly Jason Collins. In 1 Timothy, the Apostle Paul calls himself the "foremost" of sinners. This is what any Christian should consider them self, which is where so many in the Church have failed, and specifically in the case of homosexuality.

Jesus said the most important commandment is to love God before all else. Number two is to love your neighbor as yourself. I don't care if your neighbor is Jewish, atheist, Christian, Muslim, or a homosexual NBA player. We're called to first love our God and Creator, and second to love those around us.

So, Christians, stop attacking Jason Collins and the gay community. Whether they shout from the top of a mountain that they're gay and proud of it or whether they all change their lifestyles and turn Jesus when you say they should does not change the fact that we live in a broken world. Even if there were zero homosexuals we would all need a Savior because of the countless other ways we fall short of the glory of God.

My sadness based on this situation, our culture, and this thread really has nothing to do with Jason Collins, or even the rise of homosexuality in our culture. It is simply another small sign that our culture is turning it's back on their Creator, and Savior.

I hope this hasn't offended anyone. And I'm serious about bbmailing me personally. I'm passionate about my faith, and would love to talk more about why.

Last edited by natellio at 5/1/2013 12:44:47 PM