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U21 National Team Debate Thread (thread closed)

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From: Jelme

This Post:
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252150.62 in reply to 252150.61
Date: 12/25/2013 11:20:23 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
5050
I'm not running...but...easy answer. Eddy Francoeur has about 2% chance of ever playing on the U21 team.The passing in particular is too bad for him to end up on the team and it would take too long to fix it.

My experiment would be pretend this guy is American. (31722708)

How would you recommend training him.

Now pretend that his potential is either Perennial Allstar or Superstar...does it change?

6'7 instead of 6'4?

From: E.B.W.

This Post:
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252150.63 in reply to 252150.61
Date: 12/25/2013 11:50:55 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
26152615
He will never have a good shot at making the U21 NT due to his very low passing and slightly tall structure. I would suggest whoever gets him to try to train him for the NT instead of the U21 NT.

Murray/Harris/MPJ/Grant/Jokic - 2020 NBA Champs
From: E.B.W.

This Post:
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252150.64 in reply to 252150.62
Date: 12/25/2013 11:59:33 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
26152615
If he was P. allstar-Superstar potential then I would suggest getting his OD and ID up to prominent, then passing up to proficient, and then some 1v1 training. If he was HOF potential (like he is) I would suggest his owner to talk to NT manager or Coco or Sleet or someone because you would want the top priority to be successful on the NT so the training plans would vary from if he had lower potential, and to be honest I wouldn't feel comfortable telling someone how to train an NT player like that. It is not my expertise. If he was 6'7" instead of 6'4" the training plan would remain mostly the same assuming he had lower potential except more 1v1 guard training rather than 1v1 forward training.

Last edited by E.B.W. at 12/26/2013 12:00:56 AM

Murray/Harris/MPJ/Grant/Jokic - 2020 NBA Champs
This Post:
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252150.65 in reply to 252150.55
Date: 12/26/2013 12:26:15 AM
LionPride
II.2
Overall Posts Rated:
246246
I do not believe not participating in scouting last season should be held against me at all. I'd still take my scouting resume over any of the other candidates. I'm an extremely experienced scout, and still check the database weekly, just to see the prospects on the horizon.

If the election is who participated more last season EBW would win. If it were for their entire offsite contribution Smallfries and I would win. Am I a better candidate than EBW? That's what this debate is for, because he is an exceptional candidate in his own right.

There is going to be bitter people towards me because of Sleet and the NT opposition scout duties, and if that's the reason a qualified, and dedicate manager like myself will never be a U21 manager it is a flawed system. I'll own up to that mistake 100%, as it was my fault, but it is not fair to permanently hold it against me.

This Post:
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252150.66 in reply to 252150.61
Date: 12/26/2013 12:41:38 AM
LionPride
II.2
Overall Posts Rated:
246246
The fact is that being a HOF prospect means very little unless there is skill to work with. This prospect has a small chance-not zero- of being on the NT. Just too many holes.

However if the manager came to me asking for advice, I'd recommend a true-SG build, much in the likes to a Jonathan Yi build.

Yi at the start of his age 21 season 14/15/14/11/10/5 1/4/3. Not much passing, pretty horrible inside skills, and yet he was one of the best SGs the U21 ever saw, and he anchored the US to their first every World championship, scoring 24 points in the finals. There hasn't been a SG like him since, and that's a shame.

Now Francoeur is a little behind Yi in terms of TSP when drafted, but I think a 15/14/14/10/7/5 1/4/3/7 (33 pops- a bit ambitions, but the elastic effect is going to be large with him) build is very appealing option to have waiting for you. It would really depend on the guard crop that year.

Last edited by oriolekid at 12/26/2013 12:44:01 AM

From: A-Dub

This Post:
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252150.67 in reply to 252150.49
Date: 12/26/2013 6:00:21 AM
Upsyndrome
IV.21
Overall Posts Rated:
708708
Second Team:
Upsyndrome II
That's a great bribe, actually! Assuming they are, or will be, supporters. I really like that idea!

"You will lose." -Ivan Drago
From: Isaiah

This Post:
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252150.68 in reply to 252150.61
Date: 12/26/2013 7:46:58 AM
Smallfries
II.1
Overall Posts Rated:
419419
Second Team:
Smallfries II
Francoer is a classic startin build that many scouts give up on. Unfortunately Oriolekid got to this already while I was sleeping, but he would very much be on the same track that Jonathan Yi was, whom I trained myself. I know it was said not to go week to week, but I would start him off by training OD and JR since those take the longest. Then mix in 1v1 with OD and JR. Then when JR and OD are at 13/14 I would start to train the passing to utilize the elastic effect. I don't want to say he couldn't be on the U21 because that what eeryone told me about Jonathan Yi too, but with proper training and certain tactics being used by the U21 he could make it. I would have him more on the NT track rather than U21 though.

From: Isaiah

This Post:
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252150.69 in reply to 252150.62
Date: 12/26/2013 7:49:25 AM
Smallfries
II.1
Overall Posts Rated:
419419
Second Team:
Smallfries II
Jelme, that player I would train to become a SF. Especially if he is PA potential because you would want to help the owner get the most out of him that you can.

This Post:
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252150.70 in reply to 252150.65
Date: 12/26/2013 7:56:31 AM
Smallfries
II.1
Overall Posts Rated:
419419
Second Team:
Smallfries II
I completely agree with what Oriolekid said about our lack of scouting recently. Both of us have had other things going on outside of buzzerbeater. I know in the past he has said he has finals and schoolwork to do, and I had college classes to worry about as well as workin 30 hours a week during that same time. That doesn't show our lack of commitment to this team though. If I was certain that I had that qualifications to be your U21 manager I wouldn't be running. So I think asking a question about the last time we have been part of the scouting team is irrelevant.

Oriolekid and myself have been part of the offsite for several seasons now. I joined season 14, and I'm not sure about Oriolekid. We have done our fair share of work for the NT/U21 whether it is scouting or helpin with game planning or even other things. I don't want to say E.B.W. isn't a great candidate because I think he is and this season we have 3 great candidates for U21 manager which rarely happens. I just think everyone needs to get away from always having a short term memory of who has done what on the offsite.

From: Phyr
This Post:
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252150.71 in reply to 252150.70
Date: 12/26/2013 10:22:57 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
654654
Is it possible to run an outside offense next season?

From: Isaiah

To: Phyr
This Post:
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252150.72 in reply to 252150.71
Date: 12/26/2013 10:55:34 AM
Smallfries
II.1
Overall Posts Rated:
419419
Second Team:
Smallfries II
No it's not. We do not have the kind of guards to successfully do it. In fact, we have only one legit SG for an outside offense but we would need more. That one guard is at 15/12 for JS/JR where the rest have lower JS/JR and were trained more for inside offenses. We can try outside offenses against weaker opponents but we won't fool anyone. Inside offense will be our only real threat to opponents.

Now this I do not like. We can obviously run neutral offenses but we will then see more jumpshots than we would like from our guards who aren't great. During my time as U21 coach I will be working to eliminate our lack of ability to run multiple things. We need to be able to have the depth in our player base to be able to do more things and have flexibility and thy will help the NT too later on down the line..

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