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I am more than happy to be on this table to help train national team players and I'm more than happy that if two trainees with MVP potential or higher come up this season, I'll sell my current trainee and invest. However I have the same problem as Lemon, managers are selling draftees straight after the draft causing a lot of people to get involved in a bidding war and then the price becomes too high.

Hi All,

Bit of a ramble here but enjoy training and want the NT to do well and to produce players for it so here's my two pence;

It's tough training NT players is not very easy at all! Believe me as I'm trying to do it!

1. Had to outlay $700000 on 2 players!
2. In order to get them trained got knocked out of cup which cost me $250000-500000
3. went from second place to 2nd from bottom getting trainees minutes.
4. Even at that price I had to buy 19 year olds to get enough potential even at that price!

I'm hopefull that long term this will be worth it but I have some tough decisions to make with regards to training over next 6 weeks if I don't want to have to beat a tough team playing away in relegation series.

For me what might be needed to train players is a group of players who have a second team and commit to either using their English team as a NT player farm team while competing hard in utopia or vice versa buy English trainees for utopia and compete hard with initial side.

That way the trainers don't need to worry about wins losses etc

it would cost $10 but with no salary floor it should be possible to buy a decent trainee after year 1.

I don't think you can expect managers to take a hit on players prices when they are trying to compete, I had a u21 player I sold for $500000 but an English manager was saying he wasn't worth that price etc Unfortunately the market is changing and prices are going up. I want the maximum return on my investment so it makes sense to sell at market peak.

After that I would suggest that certain trainers like to train certain players, I like to train shooting guards/small forwards, other such as Arrows seem to like PG I'm sure another inside guys Tide of Fire produced 2 bigs so If the NT coach identifies who likes to train what and identifies talent for them to train that might be good too?

Good luck with any plan ;)

JB

1. I had to outlay $2.3 million on 2 players age 18 one of whom had poor stats.
2. I had to drop out of EBBL down to D3 to focus on getting them minutes.
3. I gave up on the cup.
4. I gave up on promotion for 8 seasons
5. I am still not finished yet and owning two high salary Bigs for the NT means making sacrifices on the rest of my team.

and finally...

6. It's the best thing, best challenge, best fun and best decision I ever made in BB - In Innes I now possess one of the best power forwards in the game... He and Mac are worth way more to me than anything I ever gave up in 1 to 5.

Nice to see some comments at least. Shame they're all from the usual suspects. Thanks.

Most of the new managers can't do it. Not because they can't follow the instructions, but because they can't afford to buy players of a certain calibre.

I was really thinking of those people who draft NT potential players, not those who buy them. Not sure why you think everyone in D3 is new. There are a number who have been around for a number of seasons.

However I have the same problem as Lemon, managers are selling draftees straight after the draft

That is one problem. The other problem is that some actually go unsold all season.

Personally, even as NT coach, I'd never ask anyone to do what Vecx did. Nor do I think its necessary. We shouldn't need people to be training multiple players. It would be enough if people would see the value of the rookies they draft and either train them or sell them. Keeping MVP+ potential players as scrubs is a complete waste. Far better to sell for 500k+ and replace him with star potential for 1k. Especially now that you can get quite decent 19yos fresh from the draft for 1k.

I can't stress enough the value of draftees. The potential gain to the club is immense. Immediately he's drafted he's already worth money to your team. If you train him your merchandising will go up as his salary goes up. If he plays for the u21s merchandising goes up a little. If he plays for the NT merchandising goes up much more.

It can be harder for new teams if you can't afford a decent level trainer but otherwise D3 is a great place to train because its easier to manage minutes, get single position training and not lose games.

Keeping English trainees in England is the tough thing, drafting a top trainee to most managers just means $$$ rather than an NT training opportunity.

It can be harder for new teams if you can't afford a decent level trainer

Again, I'm not just talking about new teams, there are older teams in D3.

otherwise D3 is a great place to train because its easier to manage minutes, get single position training and not lose games.

I wasn't in D3 that long but I completely agree. However, I'd like to point out you can train fairly easily in D2. I've been in II.2 for numerous seasons now (9 or 10 without looking) and I've been training (not altogether successfully for the whole time) and I was able to avoid relegation, and occassionally get into the playoffs. All in for what was, most of that time, the toughest D2 in England.

Keeping English trainees in England is the tough thing

Its better if they stay in England. Its not a complete loss for the NT if they go abroad, but its certainly a loss for the teams.

drafting a top trainee to most managers just means $$$ rather than an NT training opportunity.

I don't disapprove of selling trainees. For a lot of people its the best idea. I've drafted an MVP and a HOF, and perhaps I'd have been better off selling them, though in the case of the HOF, his skills were such that he wasn't worth the usual amount.

I actually seem to have pulled apart everything you've said but honestly that's not the case. You've simply given me the chance to expand on some points, I actually do agree with the gist of what you're saying. And certainly I value your input. I'd love the chance to respond to everyone's thoughts. Especially those in D3, including those who think they're too inexperienced to have any input. Believe me, you're never that. We want to know what people think.

Not sure why you think everyone in D3 is new.

This is also something I never said nor think. Should I clarify that I mean "lower division managers without a large enough arena/bank account and who haven't drafted a high potential player"? Yes there are managers with a large bank account, large arena and making good money per week who do not fit this description. I did kind of ignore them since they haven't shown interest so far and I doubt they will show interest in helping out in the future.

Again, I'm not just talking about new teams, there are older teams in D3.

Yes but you insist in assuming that it is possible that these teams will somehow modify their behaviour going forward, which, in my opinion, is just wishful thinking and not worth considering as a realistic option.

I'd love the chance to respond to everyone's thoughts. Especially those in D3, including those who think they're too inexperienced to have any input. Believe me, you're never that. We want to know what people think.

This is the people who we should go after. I believe many people in D3 don't even notice the forum posts in their league threads. Until more people show interest this is the situation we're in. Utopia teams might help (I'm trying to do that myself) however that will take some time too and I'm not thrilled at buying top prospects with my second team preventing me from buying them with my main team (MacPorridge would be a top prospect if he had MVP+ potential)


Last edited by Lemonshine at 12/2/2014 10:36:37 AM

This is also something I never said nor think.

I believe I either misread that or made an assumption that didn't fit. Sorry.

I did kind of ignore them since they haven't shown interest so far and I doubt they will show interest in helping out in the future.

Fair comment. Though there are exceptions.

Yes but you insist in assuming that it is possible that these teams will somehow modify their behaviour going forward, which, in my opinion, is just wishful thinking and not worth considering as a realistic option.

I'm fairly certain that my general tone in the last 24 hours has not been that of someone with unrealistic hopes. Nor of someone guilty of wishful thinking. Giving up and doing nothing doesn't seem like a very useful thing for an NT manager to do though.

Utopia teams might help

This isn't aimed at you, but I have absolutely no interest in Utopia. I wish it didn't exist (there's something I never thought I'd say), and I'd never encourage anyone to spend real money so they can train players for the NT. What a waste that would be.

I know that training players in div. II is possible. Look at Osman. He is moving along nicely. Also my ex colleague, the Gibraltar monkeys is training 2 guards. Not sure how well that is going, but he is doing OK in his div. II and as far as I know he is saving a lot off money along the way.

I know I am never going to win the ebbl, because I do not understand the game engine well enough, but seeing Osman get selected for the NT at such a young age was a real thrill. Only problem I have is training him and keep his minutes on track and stay competitive as well. Sorry for that...

Training 2 players from 18 is easiest from D3 for a number of reasons, primarily because if you are training a player for the NT, you want to focus on secondaries first. This means training a player out of position which sacrifices tactics in favour of training for your games. To do that using 48 min sfdc 5 player lineups for 2 to 3 seasons is much easier from D3 and you have no salary pressures or table position worries plus financially given you are not having to support other players you can still make more than enough money to cover the purchase and maintenance of a level 6 trainer.

Doing all the secondaries as early as possible is not a good plan as some can be done in the later years using careful planning. For example you can usually include 3 weeks of secondaries in your training plans per season without much tactical sacrifice.

I would aim to promote between season 3 and season 4 from D3 to D2 and I would advise a 6-7 season training plan from purchase in order to plan this. In season 3-4 your training plan should include primaries training with a flexible two position training (such as one on one, JS or rebounding) for the last half of the season to allow you to play the players in 2 positions making the most of promotion opportunities. You should aim to promote to EBBL in a season where your secondaries are well rounded and you are ready to pump the primaries. If you are looking at salaries in the region of 140k+ after the season update, that is the season you should push to promote. It is a risk, you risk losing your player, but the payoff in the playoffs (no rhyme intended) is that you are using a 100k salary player who is actually a 140k salary player; who needs to buy the playoffs now?

My team for example, I had an 8 season training plan when I purchased Innes at 18 which I am still following. Mac played at PG (trust me that was painful as his secondaries used to be terrible! 3/1/1/2/1/1 if I remember right.) I chose to promote when Innes hit 21 and Mac hit 20 as this was a salary efficient time to move from D3 and allowed me to move into D2 with Mac hitting 100k salary and Innes at 50k. I then chose to do more secondary / primary work holding mid to top table. Saving the one on one and rebounding training helped here as I could use Innes at SF and Mac at PF (as they were so well rounded in secondaries).

My EBBL push year was when Innes was at 90k salary and Mac was at 140k. I trained mostly primaries that year using them in position and promoted with Innes at 140k salary and Mac at 200k - thats 110k's worth of player for free in the playoffs.

Given that Mac and Innes got their NT call up so young has helped me balance finances and allows me to carry a slightly heavier bill than most because the merchandising is so good.

I know many wouldn't advocate dropping to D3 because it is not necessary. Of course it isn't necessary, but it is the best way in my opinion. I know many would say you could train from D2 (true) and I could argue you can train from EBBL too (Muse has done it with Tansey) but that is even harder and definitely not possible to train 2 players from scratch. I know having done it, that it was a fun challenge, the risk of losing players if I didn't promote or having to sell one was huge and it allowed me to focus entirely on building 2 cracking players who are without doubt the focal point of my team and great for the NT. I am still training them, they are going to get better for at least another season and then as they become veterans.

(Muse has done it with Tansey) but that is even harder and definitely not possible to train 2 players from scratch.

Park (Superhands) seems to be managing ok in the toughest DII out there :P. He's been training at PG for his SFs every week this season, except for this week.

He forgot to change his arena prices (twice), but don't tell him that: he'd be doing very well profit-wise if he had!

Last edited by Lemonshine at 12/3/2014 7:21:04 AM