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What you said was that the front page misleads people. I don't think it does, and pointed out the other facets of the game that the front page highlights. Points that you choose not to acknowledge.

Certain aspects of the front page mislead people, yes. There are certain aspects that do not. This doesn't mean that it is a wholly bad or wholly good thing. I'm pointing out a few things that are misleading, taken both in context and out of context.

I have not, ever, stated that the GE is bad or misleading or is not advanced. That you imply that I have is closer to selective editing than anything I have written to date.

As an aside, I also highly disagree with your point that none of the tactics are run for a full game in real basketball. I have coached and played and refereed many games where the teams involved ran the same thing for the entire game. One example of the full court press tactic being used for an entire game is the UNLV Runnin' Rebels under Tarkanian. They played full court man-to-man press for 40 minutes every game. They also played run and gun for entire games as did Loyola Marymount. (Anybody else remember that team with Gathers and Kimble?) And, in lower leagues like high school and grade school teams run motion offenses like flex for whole seasons. Princeton famously destroyed UCLA in the NCAA tournament playing 40 minutes of Princeton offense.And many teams play man to man only. In fact, until just a few seasons ago, man to man was the only defense you could play in the NBA.

I definitely see your point here and rescind my position against this.

Now, while I don't deny that it is a great game engine, it truly is, that still does not mean it is "advanced basketball simulation".

I never implied anything. I pointed out what you said in the above quote.

I completely agree with you. It's just that success in the TL overpowers success elsewhere, including basketball analysis. This is irrefutable.

I think one look at my team will refute this. Especially from about season 3-9. And last season I would have won the title again against a team with $100k+ salary and a manager who is infinitely better on the TL than I am if I had set my lineup properly.

Now, while I don't deny that it is a great game engine, it truly is, that still does not mean it is "advanced basketball simulation".


I never implied anything. I pointed out what you said in the above quote.

For someone who pointed out, perhaps wrongly worded, selective editing, you're doing really well.

"it" in that sentence refers to the entire game of BB not the GE. Nice try.

So, let's be clear, let's put you (the real you or you1) up against an almost identical you (you2). The only difference is that you1 does what you say you do and you2 trades, as an addition to doing everything you1 does. Do you honestly think both yous would be in the same league if they were in one of the top countries, rather than in your own? Do you honestly believe that both you1 and you2 would be able to compete on similar grounds?

I really, really don't want to seem condescending, and please forgive me if I do, but it simply does not take much intelligence to realise that if someone makes good money on the TL (which requires a lot of time), their roster will be better, their trainers will be better, their doctors will be better, their pr managers will be better, their arena will be bigger.. Have I missed something?

I am not saying it's a bad thing. What I am saying is that it is not a simulation of a basketball club.

Last edited by Axis123 at 1/24/2011 8:58:01 PM

Read axis more closely you'll see that he doesn't mean to say this is ONLY a stock market game, just that the TL situation has played too big a role. Most of us agree, becuase THERE ARE other aspects of the game which are way cooler and way funner than the whole stockmarket part. And I really think if you stick around and give the game a shot you'll find that your generation (and the ones to follow) will see this game as much more balanced than previous generation.

Hallelujah, yes, this is like music to my ears, especially the bits about the fun parts of the game.

I was daydreaming this morning about ways to have an awesome simulation game.

These are some of the things I came up with:

* Players ratings are based on statistics from earlier games and perhaps there would be some random factor. For the game engine, there would need to be some set statistic for that game, but the random factor could be included into deciding that number (out of whatever). Lebron doesn't always have an amazing game. Sometimes bench players come on and go crazy. Sometimes these things happen for a few weeks, or even months and then they fizzle.

* Sometimes average players shine in their later careers.

* Sometimes some players are just regular no names, then have a great season or a great few seasons or maybe it continues until the close of their career.

* Sometimes some players, mixing with other players work amazingly well and, with others, do not.

* Trades would be between managers, not from a TL.

* The only real trading would occur from players who are released as free agents. So it would be bidding, rather than trading.

* There would be leagues and arena sizes and, in order to develop, you would have to make good decisions and communicate well with others. Negotiation would be a powerful tool.

Now that I go to write, I've forgotten most of what I was thinking but there is a start. If the makers of BB were to create something like this, I would join immediately.

I feel like giving up and I will soon, don't worry.

The logic is simple. Trading well doesn't mean trading a lot. If one trades well, they make more money. More money means more potential. Add this with ability and you get higher success.

This is not how any real basketball competition works. Players are traded between teams or, after a contract runs out, put on the free agent list.

The logic is simple.

Maybe you should have read the earlier posts so you can see the other points (not meaning to be rude, just mentioning it).

sorry, LA since you all lost me with all these essays...

You outline all my points in one in that post.

Before I do comment on that, I'll mention a point of difference in how you described it to how it works in reality. In this game, there is a lot of staring at the TL and making sure you're there to check to see if a player is at a reasonable price to buy. Either that or sometimes waiting up to a certain time so that you can list the player at the time which is the best to list (and then sell).

This may not be how it is once you're in the top league. You may be already set. I don't know. But in the lower leagues, to earn the money you need to get above others, it seems important to do this.

Back to how you've summed everything up so well. You've basically stated that BB is an attempt to get the feel for some of the concepts of real basketball team management, by sometimes using some concepts that don't exist in reality (eg. in professional basketball leagues players have contracts and are not traded like they are in BB). In real basketball team management, there is a lot of scouting, communicating, watching, stat crunching. The Spurs (my fav team) seem to have done an amazing job at this over the past decade and a half.

The peeps at BB have done a great job. I love almost everything about the game, just not the fact that good traders get an advantage over the rest.

Is that fair?