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Passing is indeed important but the pace that it pops in an 18/19/20 or 21 years old player is almost the same.

I would spend most of the 18/19 year old training Pressure.

There's 3 weeks left to the playoffs and then 2 weeks more. If you single position him those 5 weeks in pressure you could probably increase the OD to prolific and have the Handling in strong and the driving in respectable. With a bit of luck, and if he didn't pop yet in ID you could even had a pop there.

So end of the 18 years old:

Jump Shot: strong Jump Range: strong
Outside Def.: prolific Handling: strong
Driving: respectable Passing: inept
Inside Shot: respectable Inside Def.: inept/mediocre
Rebounding: respectable Shot Blocking: inept

Continue the 19 years old
14 weeks - 6 weeks pressure, 2 week stamina/free throw (all-star/playout/playoff), 6 weeks jump shot

Jump Shot: prominent/prolific Jump Range: proficient
Outside Def.: wondrous Handling: prominent
Driving: proficient Passing: inept
Inside Shot: respectable Inside Def.: mediocre
Rebounding: respectable Shot Blocking: inept

When he turns 20 you can give passing train and I guarantee you that in 6/7 weeks he can pop around 4 times (from inept to strong).

Of course you will need luck to have always the 48 minutes and no injuries. But there is always some way to compensate it!

Last edited by Killer Penguin at 9/1/2010 7:35:10 AM

14 on OD is indeed, he can have it around 11 and train passing that will help him more in the player performance. He can give OD 14-16 when he is 21-22. Why you wanna train so fast his OD, when he could do both things, defending-passing.

Training monoskilleds so fast is not really good for the player performance when he can keep improving in all skills every season and help more the team than only having 1 skill high.

Last edited by Marot at 9/1/2010 11:01:02 AM

That really depends if you wanna count with him in the starting five really early or if you can sacrifice some seasons and use him during cup/friendly matches!

Your comment is based on a direct good performance. Mine is more an advice to have a really good player in a slightly slower way but that can give you nice results in a near future.

This player was like this with 19 years old and 5 weeks left to the end of the season:

(11783015)

Jump Shot: average Jump Range: respectable
Outside Def.: prodigious ↑ Handling: prominent
Driving: proficient Passing: respectable
Inside Shot: strong Inside Def.: proficient
Rebounding: respectable Shot Blocking: atrocious
Stamina: inept Free Throw: inept

By training only pressure he manage to have several pops in Handling, Driving and Inside Defense (besides OD of course).
This is just one example of how you can get advantage of the slightly fast train of pressure when they are young. And the player is still useful for the team if you want to stop a good PG/SG.

I wouldn't think there is actually a benefit to doing slower skills first in the long run. If the training time of a skill is a set coefficient, and the age is a different coefficient then depending on whether or not they are multiplicative or additive it could range from being more beneficial to train the quicker skills or it being exactly the same.

I'm making these #s up in my example, but the math behind them should apply based on whatever the coefficients actually are.

Say Pressure training has a coefficient of .4, while Passing training has a coefficient of .7

If it's multiplicative and a 18 year old has a coefficient of 1.25 while a 19 year old has a coefficient of 1.15:
Slower Skill First: 1 week of Pressure as 18 and 1 week of Passing at 18 = .4 * 1.25 + .7 * 1.15 = 1.305 levels
Faster Skill First: 1 week of Passing at 18 and 1 week of Pressure at 19 = .7 * 1.25 + .4 * 1.15 = 1.335 levels

If it's additive and a 18 year olds has a coefficient of .1 while a 19 year old has a coefficient of .075:
Slower Skill First: 1 week of Pressure as 18 and 1 week of Passing at 18 = .4 + .1 + .7 + .075 = 1.275 levels
Faster Skill First: 1 week of Passing at 18 and 1 week of Pressure at 19 = .7 + .1 + .4 + .075 = 1.275 levels

That's a perfect reasonable calculation but you are assuming that the decrease in pressure is the same as in passing over the years. What is, in my opinion, and from my experience, completly wrong!

Imagine that a rookie with 18 years old can pop in OD by pressure every two weeks. With 19 years old he can pop every 2,5 weeks and with 20 every 3 weeks.

With passing, this is completly different! A rookie with 18 years old can pop in passing every 1.5 weeks. With 19 years old can pop every 1.6 weeks and with 20 every 1.7 weeks. I am making this numbers but I even think the difference is even smaller than this in passing.

So if you make your calculations again, using your numbers and assuming that passing mantains the pace through the age, we have:

If it's multiplicative and a 18 year old has a coefficient of 1.25 while a 19 year old has a coefficient of 1.15 (only for pressure):
Slower Skill First: 1 week of Pressure as 18 and 1 week of Passing at 18 = .4 * 1.25 + .7 * 1.25 = 1.375 levels
Faster Skill First: 1 week of Passing at 18 and 1 week of Pressure at 19 = .7 * 1.25 + .4 * 1.15 = 1.335 levels

If it's additive and a 18 year olds has a coefficient of .1 while a 19 year old has a coefficient of .075:
Slower Skill First: 1 week of Pressure as 18 and 1 week of Passing at 18 = .4 + .1 + .7 + .1 = 1.300 levels
Faster Skill First: 1 week of Passing at 18 and 1 week of Pressure at 19 = .7 + .1 + .4 + .075 = 1.275 levels

Plus, you have to take in consideration that pressure trains OD, HD, DR and ID and passing trains PA, HD and DR.
There's clear a difference here. Besides... What would you like to have more in a player? OD or PA?

I am not saying that training only pressure in the beginning is the best to do. But in my opinion, there are clearly some advantages on that!

That's a perfect reasonable calculation but you are assuming that the decrease in pressure is the same as in passing over the years. What is, in my opinion, and from my experience, completly wrong!

I strongly disagree, to me my assumption seems rather basic and logical and I would have to see some tangible evidence to believe otherwise. It makes little sense for the base coefficient to change on a skill. I guess theoretically each skill could have it's own age coefficient, but that makes little sense to me from a design viewpoint, or from a gameplay viewpoint.

Plus, you have to take in consideration that pressure trains OD, HD, DR and ID and passing trains PA, HD and DR.
There's clear a difference here. Besides... What would you like to have more in a player? OD or PA?

I am not saying that training only pressure in the beginning is the best to do. But in my opinion, there are clearly some advantages on that!

I was just saying that I think it's a myth that you should train the "slower" skills first because you will get the same training amount no matter when you train if it's additive (which I think it is). Or you would actually get more benefit from doing the "faster" skills if it's multiplicative.

Really it comes down to if you are training to maximize your players skills, or trying to do that in a manner that will also leads to club success. If it is the former, than a balanced approach is the best.

Imagine that a rookie with 18 years old can pop in OD by pressure every two weeks. With 19 years old he can pop every 2,5 weeks and with 20 every 3 weeks.

I don't think this is even close to correct. I have 22 and 24-year olds popping in OD the same as an 18 year old.

That just seems .....wrong.

That's easy... In the portuguese community, me and about 15 users, where analysing the several trainings and passing is the one we got more information on.

With just two players I can show you two things for the passing:
- The coefficient doesn't change (apparently) with age
- The size doesn't influence passing

18 years old - 2,18 m - Single position for 6 weeks
PA - X - PA - X - PA - PA

20 years old - 2,08 m - Single position for 6 weeks
PA - X - PA - PA - X - PA

I have also given passing train for 3 weeks (two positions) this season and this were my results:

18 years old - 2,06 m
PA - X - PA

22 years old - 1,85 m
X - PA - X

21 years old - 2,13 m
X - PA - X

20 years old - 1,90 m
X - PA - X

22 years old - 1,85 m
PA - X - PA

21 years old - 1,85 m
X - PA - X

Really it comes down to if you are training to maximize your players skills, or trying to do that in a manner that will also leads to club success. If it is the former, than a balanced approach is the best.

But that's what I was saying before. My advice was definitly to maximize the player's skills.


@ GM-somdetsfinest

I don't think this is even close to correct. I have 22 and 24-year olds popping in OD the same as an 18 year old.

That doesn't seem possible and my experience and the data I have from ~40 players, tells me you are completly wrong. If that is true then I don't understand why NT coaches are so worried about OD in young ages! Or why shouldn't we start buying players with low levels of OD but pretty good already in other skills and just train pressure.

You have this guy on the transfer list:

Age: 23
Height: 6'1" / 185 cm
Potential: MVP

Jump Shot: marvelous Jump Range: prolific
Outside Def.: pitiful Handling: prolific
Driving: sensational Passing: strong
Inside Shot: respectable Inside Def.: strong
Rebounding: average Shot Blocking: inept
Stamina: awful Free Throw: mediocre

2 seasons of pressure and he would be a monster? (if you consider that he pops as fast as a rookie with 18 years old)

NT coaches are so worried about OD in young ages! Or why shouldn't we start buying players with low levels of OD but pretty good already in other skills and just train pressure.

Thats because sometimes NT's managers we go crazy haha ¡

Anyway, as i said before from my experience and opinion the best way to train a PG is to do it in a balanced way. Of course that if he has the OD in 6 or so you can train it to 9-10 or 11 fast but arrived to that point, its better to focus on his others skills.

You talk about maxiimize the player skill then you are wrong. If that player can defend well with a 11-12 OD, why you wanna go to OD 15 so fast? You can improve on passing and shooting and you will maximize his performance on the court and for the team performance it will be also better.

Anyway its true that doing what you said, you can have a rookie of 19 years playing on the court, but doing it on a balanced training you can have it with 20 and his performance will be better, not to talk that with 21 he can start to be a monster.


Just to conclude if you look at PG's performance of u21 teams you will see that the best PG's at this moment are not those who have a high OD and passing(so a monoskilled PG), the best are those who can defend, assist, shoot and drive under the basket.