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From: GM-hrudey

To: red
This Post:
11
203956.66 in reply to 203956.65
Date: 12/16/2011 1:21:06 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
32293229
While the sample size may be large enough to rank teams based on merit, it does not happen. OkSt lost in OT, while Alabama lost at home in regulation....


That's a very good point. Well, at least, it would be, except that of course Alabama lost in OT as well. But other than that small detail, it's very good indeed. ;)


Voters may not consciously take preseason rankings into their decisions, but polls pretty much work as a ladder, and as such knowingly or not, the voters rank them such as that. I think a lot of stuff points to pre-season rankings mattering a lot. What say you when 3 teams are undefeated....? Voters rarely if ever lower a team that does not lose. So what you think the voters would look at the 3 teams seasons as a whole and make some informed judgement? I dont, I think they would do what they do every season.


You mean like this season, when the top four in the preseason (AP) were: Oklahoma, Alabama, Oregon, LSU? But, wait, week 2 had Oklahoma, LSU, Alabama. Week 3 was Oklahoma, Alabama, LSU. Week 4 was Oklahoma, LSU, Alabama. Week five was LSU, Oklahoma, Alabama. Weeks 6-8 were LSU, Alabama, Oklahoma. All three were still undefeated, all three had been ranked 1, 2 and 3. So the thought that teams never get lowered if they don't lose fails that test right there.

Of course, the motion in the coach's poll wasn't as dramatic, and Oklahoma never entirely fell out of #1, though their margin fell to 11 points. Alabama and LSU did still flip, though, and there were plenty of other flips early in the season - just looking at Boise State, they passed Stanford in week 2, FSU in week 3, and then got passed by Stanford in week 5, and Wisconsin in week 6 (who also leaped ahead of OkSt that week).

Heck, just last year Florida was ranked #4/#3 (AP/Coaches) in the preseason and by week 2, was ranked 10/7 (at 2-0). Even after going 4-0, they were #7 in both polls -- seems a far cry from teams keeping their spot automatically. In the past four years in the coaches poll, an undefeated team has dropped in rank 36 times.


I would even argue, at least as of recently, more correcting of the pre-season rankings happen early rather than late. If you look at first few weeks this season, you will see some teams who won but dropped a bit in the rankings. Simply put you do not see that towards the end of the season, you just dont.


I wish I had read this before the last few paragraphs. ;)

In the final coaches' poll, Nebraska, Penn State and Florida State dropped despite not playing; West Virginia won and dropped. There's more movement in the AP poll, of course, as they actually seem to take it more seriously. But I'm confused -- if you think the polls should measure the full body of work of the season, wouldn't it make a lot more sense for there to be less movement late? By the last weeks of the season, you've got a pretty solid body of work for each team and can evaluate them fairly well, so the late games shouldn't change the evaluation that dramatically. Early on, of course, the preseason rankings are going to be compared with the performance on the field and you'll see more volatility.

This Post:
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203956.68 in reply to 203956.58
Date: 12/17/2011 2:08:40 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
147147
lol, nice way to end the discussion. What do you think about your aggies moving to the SEC?


I don't like it.

The move to the SEC was done for two reasons:
1. money
2. the Longhorn Network

A&M has always had an inferiority complex stemming from their relationship with that other school in Texas. Realignment became inevitable when Texas signed a contract with ESPN. The powers-that-be at A&M have a huge ego problem and refuse to play second fiddle to any university in the state of Texas.

From a competitive standpoint, A&M will do fine in all sports except football, although I think they'll eventually be able to compete. Personally, I hate the idea of mega-conferences as they ruin decades-old rivalries and create matchups that make no geographical sense. The sport that's really going to suffer though is basketball. Every conference was much more interesting before their recent additions. The part of all this realignment that really kills me is the dissolution of the Big East. Watching the battle royale that takes place in this conference during the months of January and February is the highlight of my sports year, March Madness excluded.

As Red said, it's all about the money. And the higher ups get away with it because we the fans will never stop watching.



This Post:
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203956.69 in reply to 203956.68
Date: 12/17/2011 12:55:25 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
152152
I know how to solve the problems: A PLAYOFF. Where all the contending teams have a chance to prove their are the champion. The BCS isn't a legit system, just a way to make a boatload of money.

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203956.70 in reply to 203956.69
Date: 12/17/2011 1:28:35 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
104104
I agree. I would like something similar to the NCAA tournament, but on a smaller scale. There could be two games in a week over the course of two weeks. That would make a 16 team tournament.

Hopefully a better system will be implemented soon, so the teams can determine more of their own fate.

This Post:
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203956.71 in reply to 203956.68
Date: 12/17/2011 7:46:58 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
744744
The part of all this realignment that really kills me is the dissolution of the Big East. Watching the battle royale that takes place in this conference during the months of January and February is the highlight of my sports year, March Madness excluded.

As a Cincinnati fan, I can't help but agree with you. Losing WVU, Pitt & Syracuse and replacing them with SMU, SDSU, Boise State and Houston (with Navy and perhaps Air Force a few years down the road) isn't my idea of a great basketball conference, even if it might be kind of even in football. No wonder UConn has been shopping themselves around to the Big12.

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This Post:
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203956.72 in reply to 203956.71
Date: 12/18/2011 12:10:27 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
147147

As a Cincinnati fan, I can't help but agree with you. Losing WVU, Pitt & Syracuse and replacing them with SMU, SDSU, Boise State and Houston (with Navy and perhaps Air Force a few years down the road) isn't my idea of a great basketball conference, even if it might be kind of even in football. No wonder UConn has been shopping themselves around to the Big12.


No team is getting more screwed over in realignment than Cincinnati is. 2 BCS bowl games in the last 4 years and over $100 million in facility upgrades doesn't even get them an invite out of the hellhole the Big East has become.

It'll be interesting to see what happens to Cincinnati, Louisville, and the non-football schools in the Big East. I can't imagine these schools being happy with the state of the conference, especially if West Virginia and UConn jump ship.

From: Panic
This Post:
00
203956.73 in reply to 203956.72
Date: 12/18/2011 11:44:49 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
5656
What I don't understand about the NCG is how even if Alabama wins, LSU had a better season. Ugh.

Either go plus 1, like this: [Note: Not my idea, find here -> http://mgoblog.com/content/annual-complaint-against-stupi...]

RESTRICTED FIELD. No 9-3 teams. Maintain as much of the importance of the regular season as possible. Keep out anyone who could win three straight and still reasonably have an AP vote go against them.

HOME GAMES. Helps with attendance, prevents people from having to travel multiple weeks, helps maintain importance of regular season, makes the guys at the bottom wade through a tougher task and helps bolster their pile-of-skulls argument.

BYES. Again, importance of regular season and pile-of-skulls argument.

NO AUTOBIDS, MAX TWO TEAMS PER CONFERENCE. Autobids can suck it. So can third place teams in their own conference. Also no first round intraconference matchups.

FINAL AT THE ROSE BOWL. Iconic. Would become one of the great traditions in American sports.

This year's version based on the final BCS standings:

1. LSU vs winner of 4. Stanford and 7. Boise State
2. Alabama vs winner of 3. Oklahoma State and 5. Oregon

Arkansas is left out because of the two-teams-per-conference rule; Boise and Oregon flip to prevent a conference matchup. The first two games would be last weekend with the second round on January 1st (2nd this year) and the final a week after. Anyone outside of the final four can go to whatever bowl they want, so this hardly touches the bowl system. The net result is removing one BCS bowl in favor of the playoff.

An eight team version of this is less ideal but also acceptable; that would see Kansas State and Wisconsin on the road in the first round against the SEC teams. Autobids are awful. Clemson and West Virginia can win three straight games here and still not be as worthy as LSU.
-------------------------------------------------
Or go with top 10 teams in BCS with 2 per conference if it comes up, #11 gets in, top 2 bye.

Last edited by Panic at 12/18/2011 11:46:55 AM

From: Stauder

This Post:
00
203956.74 in reply to 203956.73
Date: 12/18/2011 10:23:43 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
246246
Not taking away from the rest of your post, but the last part about 10 teams in a playoff wouldn't work if the top 2 get byes. That would leave 6 teams in the second round. 12 teams would work with the top 4 getting byes, although I think all of those are too much. I like your 6 team idea with the top 2 getting byes though.

This Post:
00
203956.75 in reply to 203956.74
Date: 12/18/2011 11:10:36 PM
Overall Posts Rated:
152152
If it were up to me I'd have a 16 team playoff . With auto bids for all 11 FBS conferences(only to be fair, all FBS conferences should have a chance at the title) and at large bids for the top 5 highest ranked remaining teams in BCS poll. That would make a fair exciting and money generating playoff. The two rounds could be played at the home of higher ranked teams and then final four and championship could be played at neutral site places like the Rose Bowl, Orange Bowl, etc.

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