BuzzerBeater Forums

Jump Shot: Henk Norel
Jump Range: Henk Norel
Outside Def.: Henk Norel
Handling: Henk Norel
Driving: Francisco Elson
Passing: Swen Nater
Inside Shot: Rik Smits
Inside Def.: Francisco Elson
Rebounding: Swen Nater
Shot Blocking: Dan Gadzuric
Stamina: Geert Hammink
Free Throw: Rik Smits
Experience: Rik Smits

Is this why BB drug tests us?

You don't know the famous Swen Nater?

When he drove the lane, was it the correct one?

Lol that one is nasty haha.

Luckely Davis won pretty much every 1500m this season, except the most important one... That made up a bit

Jump Shot: Reggie Miller
Jump Range: Pistol Pete
Outside Def.: Gary Payton
Handling: Mugsy Bogues
Driving: MJ
Passing: Stockton
Inside Shot: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Inside Def.: That Guy from C´s...oh yeah, Bill Russell
Rebounding: Wilt
Shot Blocking: Mark Eaton
Stamina: Wilt
Free Throw: Mark Price

Experience: Kareem

Russell was 6'9". Besides I would argue that rebounding is more about positioning, athleticism, and hustling than it is about height.
Because Wilt was a once-in-a-lifetime athlete should take nothing away from how great of a rebounder he was. The whole era debate is legitimate, but you have to put it in perspective from both sides. Russell and Chamberlain didn't have the equipment, training, nutrition, or 30-40 years of coaching and sports technology development to help them either.

I found 25 guys 6'8" or taller in 1960. What's more, there were only 8 teams.
(http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1960.html)

And this is why analysts usually consider in terms of stat comparision, 71 to now.

Muggsy Bogues averaged 2.6 rebound per game in 28.6 minutes per game. A few more inches would have helped in the rebounding department.

I've watch Dennis Rodman play live. I've seen lots of games live, lots of players. Rodman wanted the rebound more than anyone on the court. Timing, depth perception, instinct, innate internal physics/trigonometric calculator (got one?), eye sight, coordination, strength, height, quickness, leaping ability... all these are parts of rebounding. Rodman wanted the ball more than anyone else. Call it aggressiveness, desire, pride, whatever. Just like Michael Jordan would get the look like he wanted to score and somehow always did when he wanted it, Rodman went after every rebound. He was never the biggest or fastest or quickest guy on the court. He was the hungriest.

Of course, then he'd sometimes go to sleep on the offensive side of things. But he'd wake up when somebody shot the ball (4.8 offensive rebounds per game in 31.7 mpg).

Alex English averaged 3.2 rebounds in 31.9 minutes. He was 6'7". I would say 2.6 rpg for a guy who stands 5'3" is pretty good, and a measure of his athleticism. The height of a man is in the stoutness of his heart and all that.

I've seen Rodman play, too. Both when he was a decent player and when he was only interested in getting rebounds. I would put 9 of the 10 factors you mentioned under the term athleticism (which I already did). The wanting the ball part I called hustle. And I agree with you completely that Rodman had all of those things. I just think that Russell and Wilt did as well. Another thing about Russell and Wilt is that defenses were geared to stop only them, whereas Rodman on the Pistons had two other huge guys that teams had to worry about in Salley and Lame-beer. When he moved to the Bulls, teams didn't even guard him because he often times refused to shoot even layups. It's easier to get boards when nobody is guarding you. None of this is meant to take anything away from the Worm who was one of the three greatest rebounders ever, as Rip put it.

Have you ever seen Bogues in person? Massive thighs and arms so long on his frame that when he'd bounce around (so quick!) you'd wonder if he'd ever got knuckle scrapes from walking around. I remember seeing him in a pre-game (before they opened the stadium to public) one-on-one with Manute Bol when they were both with the Bullets. This was in the old Chicago Stadium. No joke. Bogues was launching these rainbows over Bol, the arc of the shots must have been in the 30-40 foot-range at the peak. And I recall most of them were going in. (When Bol turned sideways, he almost disappeared. Like a walking stick. What a huge contrast to Bogues!) Someone with Bogues' dimensions and quickness, but with another foot and a half, would grab 30 rebounds a game.

Most of the posts are good, some are just laughable:

such as:

Blake Griffin OD ? Are u kidding me?

Big Z Inside Shot? The guy is a 4th option on offense at best!

Laimbeer does NOT have legendary range. He used to shoot a tippy-toes just behind the line three pointer. He WAS a legendary instigator and dirty player.

Lots of people have Jordan for OD, but no one lists Scottie Pippen, who always drew the primary defensive assignment.

No mention of Michael Cooper for Defense. What about Kevin McHale for Inside Shot?

The discussion shouldn't be about whether Rodman was a better rebounding than Wilt. They are both legendary rebounders. We're not trying to crown a champion...

Lebron is scary in the fact that he could easily be legendary in a whole bunch of stats before he's done. You could already make arguments for Jump Range, Driving, Shot Blocking, and a lesser argument for Passing, Handling, Jump Shot, Rebounding, Outside Defense...

Is Larry Bird a legendary passer? He doesn't get as many assists as Nash or Magic, but he also wasn't the primary ball handler.

For Stamina, keep in mind there is no such thing as legendary. It only goes up to proficient.


Last edited by JuggleBoy at 4/13/2010 1:17:17 AM