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International Competition

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173944.68 in reply to 173944.64
Date: 2/22/2011 9:44:24 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
404404
So I understand your message firstly in different way (incorrectly).
But I still see one very important difference which affects club which own such a players.
First one with training primaries as much as possible before switching to secondaries will have to pay very high salary for many season and will have even play this player with that huge wage off position.
Second one will pay many seasons reasonable salary by training secondaries earlier and the wage will increase later by training primaries.

Basically the only skills that you can't train at least a minimum in position are JR,OD and PAS for big mans and REB and SB for guards(Sf needs all,so they have to change their training position)
You have good arguments,but I think that you can't be so radical.I think that instead of training only in a direction(secondary to primari and primary to secondary) the best thing would be to train secondaries in position while the player is still young to avoid the side effects on salary/potential/lack of competitivity

Instead of training intensively IS,for example,you would better train JS for SF-PF when a player still is far from coming in the NT,so you would increase both a primary(IS) and a secondary skill(JS) at the same time,while having less impact on salary and potential than a monorole IS,,so when he need to improve in his primary skills as laststep to enter in NT,he will yet have great secondaries skills

You need to train out of position only in specific situations,as like OD to have a great PF


Last edited by Steve Karenn at 2/22/2011 9:45:25 AM

This Post:
00
173944.69 in reply to 173944.66
Date: 2/22/2011 9:47:18 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
404404
I believe that small communities should focus on primaries (Chile, Iran, Switzerland), large communities can afford to focus more on secondaries (France, Spain).


I believe everybody should focus on an intermediate position where you do need to have top level primary skills(right now that is a C of 250k) if you want to go for a good result in WC, and trying to maximize the secondary skills of their most talented players(given by talent at draft and potential) wich are likely to be ones who will play in your NT until they are 33-34.

I fairly think a lot of people would agree with this, the main issue here is how to engage people into NT training and how to create a scheme of tactical work where you can have consistent good results(not a perfect score, but consistent victories).

Because in the end, every country has the same amount of players to fill in a first and second div wich is were a NT player can be competitive for their team. Big countries might have more chances to create farm teams but you can't keep a 450k on a farm because that farm should play at least in second div and this is very unlikley to happen for periods higher than a season.

So I honestly think the main differences would not be players(in wich at anypoint the most likely training strategy to be dominant will be copied for others NT) but the degree of organization for every community and the quality of the tactical team behind NT decisions.

I completely agree with your reasoning :D

This Post:
00
173944.70 in reply to 173944.66
Date: 2/22/2011 9:50:07 AM
BC Hostivař
II.2
Overall Posts Rated:
12031203
Second Team:
Jirkov
Because in the end, every country has the same amount of players to fill in a first and second div wich is were a NT player can be competitive for their team. Big countries might have more chances to create farm teams but you can't keep a 450k on a farm because that farm should play at least in second div and this is very unlikley to happen for periods higher than a season.

That's a very good point. At the moment we have 15 players on roster, 10 from our Div I and 5 from Div II even with quite low salaries (best player 232k, second one 164k).

Last edited by rwystyrk at 2/22/2011 9:51:00 AM

This Post:
00
173944.72 in reply to 173944.68
Date: 2/22/2011 10:03:45 AM
BC Hostivař
II.2
Overall Posts Rated:
12031203
Second Team:
Jirkov
Training off position is not so difficult as many people think. You just only have to now how to set lineup and tactic not to lose competivity while playing bigmen on PG or guard on C. Especially playing bigmen on PG is quite easy and maybe even with quick increase of competivity. With guards on C it’s little bit more difficult.

JR training for bigmen is vaste of time because is extermly slow, so bigman need to have good JR from draft or train it just by JS training. OD training is neccesary even if slow and PAS training is very quick so it’s very helpful to train it.
ID pops by OD training are very slow, but there are also problems with speed of primary ID training for small players. Due to impact on salary I don’t recommend REB training for guard at all.

IS/JS I like to train by secondary trainings and just at the end finish by primary.

This Post:
00
173944.73 in reply to 173944.71
Date: 2/22/2011 10:07:15 AM
BC Hostivař
II.2
Overall Posts Rated:
12031203
Second Team:
Jirkov
counter-example:(7558003), $540k, 7 months in division IV, alive and kicking

It's just about how long it takes before lack of funds (another season or two?) and then his NT would have trouble to find another team which will be able to keep him at least one season.



Last edited by rwystyrk at 2/22/2011 10:07:41 AM

This Post:
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173944.74 in reply to 173944.71
Date: 2/22/2011 10:23:07 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
409409
the main issue here is how to engage people into NT training
agreed.
you can't keep a 450k on a farm because that farm should play at least in second div and this is very unlikley to happen for periods higher than a season
counter-example:(7558003), $540k, 7 months in division IV, alive and kicking


Sure, I did not say it was imposible. I did say it was unlikely, and I still think that.

Farm teams might survive for longer periods, but how many of them could you manage to have for a specific country? Managing 8-10 farms like that one is harder than making good runs in the WC without farms :)

Still, farm teams are an issue but I don't really think is something the BBs really consider a problem. If it were like that an easy solution had been aplied long ago (Like limiting that amount of salary paid to a given player cannot be higher than, say, 80% of total salary share for more than two consequetive weeks, so you can still give some freedom to managers and avoiding the most easy form of farming). A typical BB answer would be: "If we thing that farming becomes a dominant strategy for NT, we will look at it and found a solution" :D

From: Azrail

This Post:
00
173944.75 in reply to 173944.73
Date: 2/23/2011 5:06:08 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
259259
counter-example:(7558003), $540k, 7 months in division IV, alive and kicking

It's just about how long it takes before lack of funds (another season or two?) and then his NT would have trouble to find another team which will be able to keep him at least one season.


1 or 2 seasons, and in this time, they will prepare some new farm teams for this player :-)

From: rwystyrk

This Post:
00
173944.76 in reply to 173944.75
Date: 2/23/2011 5:12:16 AM
BC Hostivař
II.2
Overall Posts Rated:
12031203
Second Team:
Jirkov
In my eyes it's not so easy to find a team with enough funds and willing to stay in game as a farm. Especially with current transfer prices. But maybe some countries have different experience.

From: sunman

This Post:
00
173944.77 in reply to 173944.76
Date: 2/23/2011 5:38:57 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
891891
switzerland has no farm team. fortunately we have a few swiss teams where our best players are playing. the rest is playing in the highest divisions overall the world.
the bad thing about that is, that our players salary will never be higher than 350k. but the good thing with this system is, that our best players are always in good GS. and if you are a small country like us (less than 300managers) it is the only way to stay competitive with the biggest countries...

From: Azrail

This Post:
00
173944.78 in reply to 173944.76
Date: 2/23/2011 6:00:25 AM
Overall Posts Rated:
259259
In my eyes it's not so easy to find a team with enough funds and willing to stay in game as a farm. Especially with current transfer prices. But maybe some countries have different experience.


It's not so easy in the small countries like ours and yours, but in big countries, I think is not a problem to find few teams like this.
But this is just my humble opinion :-)

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