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Not sure why you think everyone in D3 is new.

This is also something I never said nor think. Should I clarify that I mean "lower division managers without a large enough arena/bank account and who haven't drafted a high potential player"? Yes there are managers with a large bank account, large arena and making good money per week who do not fit this description. I did kind of ignore them since they haven't shown interest so far and I doubt they will show interest in helping out in the future.

Again, I'm not just talking about new teams, there are older teams in D3.

Yes but you insist in assuming that it is possible that these teams will somehow modify their behaviour going forward, which, in my opinion, is just wishful thinking and not worth considering as a realistic option.

I'd love the chance to respond to everyone's thoughts. Especially those in D3, including those who think they're too inexperienced to have any input. Believe me, you're never that. We want to know what people think.

This is the people who we should go after. I believe many people in D3 don't even notice the forum posts in their league threads. Until more people show interest this is the situation we're in. Utopia teams might help (I'm trying to do that myself) however that will take some time too and I'm not thrilled at buying top prospects with my second team preventing me from buying them with my main team (MacPorridge would be a top prospect if he had MVP+ potential)


Last edited by Lemonshine at 12/2/2014 10:36:37 AM

This is also something I never said nor think.

I believe I either misread that or made an assumption that didn't fit. Sorry.

I did kind of ignore them since they haven't shown interest so far and I doubt they will show interest in helping out in the future.

Fair comment. Though there are exceptions.

Yes but you insist in assuming that it is possible that these teams will somehow modify their behaviour going forward, which, in my opinion, is just wishful thinking and not worth considering as a realistic option.

I'm fairly certain that my general tone in the last 24 hours has not been that of someone with unrealistic hopes. Nor of someone guilty of wishful thinking. Giving up and doing nothing doesn't seem like a very useful thing for an NT manager to do though.

Utopia teams might help

This isn't aimed at you, but I have absolutely no interest in Utopia. I wish it didn't exist (there's something I never thought I'd say), and I'd never encourage anyone to spend real money so they can train players for the NT. What a waste that would be.

I know that training players in div. II is possible. Look at Osman. He is moving along nicely. Also my ex colleague, the Gibraltar monkeys is training 2 guards. Not sure how well that is going, but he is doing OK in his div. II and as far as I know he is saving a lot off money along the way.

I know I am never going to win the ebbl, because I do not understand the game engine well enough, but seeing Osman get selected for the NT at such a young age was a real thrill. Only problem I have is training him and keep his minutes on track and stay competitive as well. Sorry for that...

Training 2 players from 18 is easiest from D3 for a number of reasons, primarily because if you are training a player for the NT, you want to focus on secondaries first. This means training a player out of position which sacrifices tactics in favour of training for your games. To do that using 48 min sfdc 5 player lineups for 2 to 3 seasons is much easier from D3 and you have no salary pressures or table position worries plus financially given you are not having to support other players you can still make more than enough money to cover the purchase and maintenance of a level 6 trainer.

Doing all the secondaries as early as possible is not a good plan as some can be done in the later years using careful planning. For example you can usually include 3 weeks of secondaries in your training plans per season without much tactical sacrifice.

I would aim to promote between season 3 and season 4 from D3 to D2 and I would advise a 6-7 season training plan from purchase in order to plan this. In season 3-4 your training plan should include primaries training with a flexible two position training (such as one on one, JS or rebounding) for the last half of the season to allow you to play the players in 2 positions making the most of promotion opportunities. You should aim to promote to EBBL in a season where your secondaries are well rounded and you are ready to pump the primaries. If you are looking at salaries in the region of 140k+ after the season update, that is the season you should push to promote. It is a risk, you risk losing your player, but the payoff in the playoffs (no rhyme intended) is that you are using a 100k salary player who is actually a 140k salary player; who needs to buy the playoffs now?

My team for example, I had an 8 season training plan when I purchased Innes at 18 which I am still following. Mac played at PG (trust me that was painful as his secondaries used to be terrible! 3/1/1/2/1/1 if I remember right.) I chose to promote when Innes hit 21 and Mac hit 20 as this was a salary efficient time to move from D3 and allowed me to move into D2 with Mac hitting 100k salary and Innes at 50k. I then chose to do more secondary / primary work holding mid to top table. Saving the one on one and rebounding training helped here as I could use Innes at SF and Mac at PF (as they were so well rounded in secondaries).

My EBBL push year was when Innes was at 90k salary and Mac was at 140k. I trained mostly primaries that year using them in position and promoted with Innes at 140k salary and Mac at 200k - thats 110k's worth of player for free in the playoffs.

Given that Mac and Innes got their NT call up so young has helped me balance finances and allows me to carry a slightly heavier bill than most because the merchandising is so good.

I know many wouldn't advocate dropping to D3 because it is not necessary. Of course it isn't necessary, but it is the best way in my opinion. I know many would say you could train from D2 (true) and I could argue you can train from EBBL too (Muse has done it with Tansey) but that is even harder and definitely not possible to train 2 players from scratch. I know having done it, that it was a fun challenge, the risk of losing players if I didn't promote or having to sell one was huge and it allowed me to focus entirely on building 2 cracking players who are without doubt the focal point of my team and great for the NT. I am still training them, they are going to get better for at least another season and then as they become veterans.

(Muse has done it with Tansey) but that is even harder and definitely not possible to train 2 players from scratch.

Park (Superhands) seems to be managing ok in the toughest DII out there :P. He's been training at PG for his SFs every week this season, except for this week.

He forgot to change his arena prices (twice), but don't tell him that: he'd be doing very well profit-wise if he had!

Last edited by Lemonshine at 12/3/2014 7:21:04 AM

seeing Osman get selected for the NT at such a young age was a real thrill. Only problem I have is training him and keep his minutes on track and stay competitive as well. Sorry for that...

Personally, and my opinion does probably count for something here, I think training is the most important thing where Osman is concerned. And of course you being competitive. I maintain that people's own teams should be their first concern.

I'm referring to EBBL Lemon not D2 however... I would note that looking at Superhands trainees they are not getting the full 48 minutes in PG position as he is training them for this season. He is doing the best anyone could from D2 being competitive, but he is not making the most of their training. They often get 45's or 47's and not the full 48 which may not seem like much difference to you but trust me, it will all add up. I repeat - to do the full 48 min sfdc 5 player lineup's to properly train 2 players at once in out of position (avoiding the 45-47 min issues) there is really only one way to do it simply.

But feel free not to take my advice or to dispute it, it's not like I know every way of doing it. However since we are talking about promoting, training and being competitive... I have enough experience to know what I am talking about. With training from scratch and having dropped from EBBL to D3 and back to EBBL within 6 seasons I know a thing or two about balancing training with finances and being competitive and promoting too.

Last edited by LA-Vecx at 12/3/2014 10:15:33 AM

You can train 2 players easily. He's been trying to train 3 guys which is a lot harder and depends on luck a bit. It is indeed possible still: enter MacPorridge (34618483), Wally (33808655) and Reuters (34286309).

If you train 2 players and have no cup you just make sure you have a garbage time scrimmage. Play strictly T1+starter in Game1, play strictly T2+starter in Game2, play coach pick from depth chart T1+T2 in the scrimmage (stronger trainee as backup). 50-65 minutes every week. If you try to train 3 trainees then you're forced to play them for 48 minutes and accept that, if their stamina isn't good enough, they may be subbed out in the last minutes (which is Park's situation and it is my case in the Utopia team, although my guys have enough stamina and skills not to be subbed out).

I agree that 2-3 minutes have an impact on training: even 1 extra pop in OD for guards or SF might be the difference between a very good and an exceptional player.

Last edited by Lemonshine at 12/3/2014 2:15:28 PM

looking forward to seeing the players you train then, who is your next one for the NT?

MacPorridge might be just good enough if trained properly to cap and if others with better potential fall short.

I'm happy to give his stats here too:
7/5/9.6+ 9/9/4 8/8/6/6 (I will have to check the sublevels as I go on, so far I used only 2 training regimes, so it's hard to say); he's a 19yo 6'9'' Superstar

Looking forward to seeing Innes fulfill his promise too. He will have bad dreams about Matti for a while ;)